Origin of Galach
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:30 am
Found this while I was reading an article on the pre-history of Russia in our historical atlas with my son the other day. Thought the similarity in the name was interesting.
I was wondering about this recently. I've always read it as a "k" sound but something made me think it could be "ch". Maybe it was from listening to the Audio Book? I that's what it was.SandChigger wrote:That's my working assumption, as well.
The Russian version of the word is galakticheskiy.
I'm not even sure how FH pronounced it. Was the final "ch" an affricate like in "church", or was it a (voiceless velar) fricative like the "ch" in Scottish "loch" or German "Bach", or was it the "lazy English ch" = "k" that most English speakers use for "loch" and "Bach". Does he ever read a passage in which the word appears in all those recordings? Anyone know?
There are several ways (sound changes) of getting to either pronunciation, but each applies across the lexicon and results in fairly different languages...
Man, I thought I archived this in the secondary sources. There is a pronounciation guide out there other than the one on Usul's homepage and the Arabic Themes in Dune page. Maybe I have it in my links at home. Shit! I hate it when I forget to put up important stuff!SandChigger wrote:You don't mean this, http://www.usul.net/books/sounds.htm, on Usul's homepage, do you? It's not there....
Omph, do you have recordings or remember who does?
Edit:
If his pronunciation of "Kwisatz Haderach" (Kvi-ssats HADder-ack) is any indication, the language name would be GAL-ack.
I don't recall seeing that, would like to though.SandChigger wrote:Et quod est videre dicere?
A while back, when the topic of the audiobooks came up somewhere, or a new one came out, someone (Brick?) posted copies of the pronunciation notes derived from FH's notes and sent by Brian. I can't remember if it was on a publisher's site or over on Dune Novels. Could that be what you're thinking of?
Voir dire is a corruption of vrai dire, from the times when the courts in England used Norman French and people didn't really understand what the words meant. So now you know.SandChigger wrote:Qu'est-ce que veut dire <<voir dire>>?!
Which came from the latin, videre dicere, no?chanilover wrote:Voir dire is a corruption of vrai dire, from the times when the courts in England used Norman French and people didn't really understand what the words meant. So now you know.SandChigger wrote:Qu'est-ce que veut dire <<voir dire>>?!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voir_dire" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;In origin it refers to an oath to tell the truth (Latin verum dicere), in other words to give a true verdict. The word voir (or voire), in this context, is an old French word meaning "truth". It is unconnected with the modern French word voir, which derives from Latin vidēre ("to see"), though the expression is now often interpreted by false etymology to mean "to see [them] say".
What, did you just translate my poor latin above or something?SandChigger wrote:Meany, meany, tinkle, Ompharsin! (=handwriting on the C-H wall )
Anything's possible, I suppose. It seems odd that the phrase uses a possible intermediate form of vrai but the modern version of dire. I think I'll stick to the corrupted version caused by English judges and laywers no longer being able to understand French. There are other examples of mis-spelt French words in English law.SandChigger wrote:Well, not having an Old French dictionary at hand, can't say one way or the other. Do you know the complete etymology of vrai, that it doesn't include an interlude as voir(e)?
So it's probably safer to assume it's verum dicere.voir dire |ˈvwär ˈdi(ə)r| noun
Law: a preliminary examination of a witness or a juror by a judge or counsel.
• an oath taken by such a witness.
ORIGIN Law French, from Old French voir ‘true’ + dire ‘say.’
You mean like instead of words like pork and beef? Well, what would the words for dog and cat meat be? I'm dying to know, now.SandChigger wrote:If I run into the French prof here at lunch today, I'll ask him. He was quite helpful a few weeks back when I asked his opinion on what words English might use for the meats if Europeans had eaten dogs and cats. (Regularly, that is.)
(No, I'm not kidding. I do that kind of thing to him all the time. He expects it now. )
We Americans probably speak a bastardised form of most European languages in one way or another.chanilover wrote:....
By the way, don't North Americans speak a bastardised form of 200 year old English?
chanilover wrote:Que?
Nice one!Eyes High wrote:chanilover wrote:Que?
yeah. see some of us yankies can't even spell our mistakes.
I thought you were a Southerner.Eyes High wrote:chanilover wrote:Que?
yeah. see some of us yankies can't even spell our mistakes.
SandChigger wrote:She is.
Freak's the only one not embarrassed to admit it.
Oui. I am. Of course in this case I was using the term yanky as it referred to an American.chanilover wrote:I thought you were a Southerner.Eyes High wrote:chanilover wrote:Que?
yeah. see some of us yankies can't even spell our mistakes.
I was wondering, which one does it mean or can it have both meanings?...The name Autrey-Autry is of French origin and derives from Aldric meaning "old, powerful." Bandsley, in a Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames, states that it is a baptismal name well know in York County, England. The earliest record is of a Simeon Autrey at Johanna in 1379. The late Mahan Blair Autry states in his book, The Family and Descendants fo Captain John Autry, that the name means "different" in French ("autre")....
Merci! You are a scholar and a gentleman!ionah wrote:yes, "autre" is a derivative from (alter/atra/altrum) which gives also "alternatif" or "alter-ego" but must not be confound with (alienus, a, um) which gives "aliéner" or alien (in english)
le Trésor de la Langue Française Informatisée
http://atilf.atilf.fr/tlfv3.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
dictionnaire Français-Latin
http://www.lexilogos.com/latin_langue_dictionnaires.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Which is the book that I quoted from in my earlier post. I appreciate the help. I'll be sending the links to my brother as well so that he (or his daughter) may also do some researching of our family.The Descendants of Cornelius Autry, Immigrant, of Edgecombe County, North Carolina [and] Neil Culbreth of Sampson County, North Carolina, and Allied Families
Author: V Mayo Bundy; Robert Autry Brooks
Publisher: Charlotte, NC : Herb Eaton Historical Publications, 1996.
Edition/Format: Book : English : 2nd ed