Books in the pile

[Omphalos]

What is everyone planning on reading this January?

I am half way through an anthology of James Tiptree, Jr. called Her Smoke Rose Up Forever. I am also half way through Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle's Footfall. Sitting on deck I have John Wyndham's The Midwich Cuckoos, the two Chad Oliver books I just got called Far From This Earth and A Star Above It. That should keep my busy until February, though I do have a few back-ups in case I finish early.

[Phaedrus]

Fall of Hyperion and Ilium, both by Dan Simmons.

Of course, I was planning on reading those in December, too. And November. And part of October.

[SandChigger]

I'm over 200 pp into The Terror; also read about half of the "Melange" article in TSoD.

[Mandy]

I decided to reread The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, by Stephen Donaldson about a month ago. It is a good story, but for some reason I'm finding it a bit tedious.

I need to find something really gripping to read.

[SandChigger]

The Gripping Hand was fun...if you're into furry mutant aliens.

(And have read The Mote in God's Eye.)

[Omphalos]

I actually have both of those in the lower pile. I think Im going to do some more reviews of action-oriented SF books this year, and stay away from the high-literary and social stuff. I think I may be boring some people, so it may be time to go back to the stuff I loved when I was a kid. These two books are definately in that category.

Next time Im in Seattle Im going to buy David Drake's Hammer's Slammers books. Three volumes of short stories and novels about tank warfare. I LOVED them when I was young, and Im betting that they hold up well.

[Omphalos]

I decided to reread The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, by Stephen Donaldson about a month ago. It is a good story, but for some reason I'm finding it a bit tedious.

I need to find something really gripping to read.

Have you read Tim Powers? I could give you some excellent recommendations if you have not.

[Mandy]

Nope, I've never read any Tim Powers. What does he write? I don't care much for hard SF.. I actually prefer the social stuff.



Furry mutant aliens?

[Omphalos]

Nope, I've never read any Tim Powers. What does he write? I don't care much for hard SF.. I actually prefer the social stuff.



Furry mutant aliens?

Tim Powers is a about as close to the mid-way as you can get between SF and fantasy. He and a few others are also credited with creating a sub-genre called steampunk, which is SF in a setting with reduced level of tech, often Victorian. Sorry, but not much social stuff there. He is what I would call "gripping" though, as the plots in his books are extremely exciting.




If you want social stuff, go through my book reviews. You will find PLENTY. If you really want something social, try Carol Emshwiller. Here are two reviews I just did:

The Mount

The Secret City

They both have a relatively strong feminist streak through them both too, so if that turns you off, maybe not.




If you want to try Powers, I recommend the following, in this order:

The Anibus Gates: Pure steampunk adventure. NOT to be missed.

The Drawing of the Dark: Fantasy during the Crusades mixed with King Arthur. Amazing. This is as close to social commentary as Powers gets.

Last Call/Earthquake Weather, and...um...theres a third too. Fantasy in modern times. The three books are loosely related. The first one is about tangible luck that can be cultivated and spent.

Dinner at Deviant's Palace: Post apocalyptic. Fantastically good.

Declare: Psychological/fantasy thriller about real life British turncoat spy Kim Philby (who when in the MI-5 helped us close the OSI and open the CIA) after he defected the the Soviet Union.

Three Days to Never: New Weird tale about ghosts.

[Mandy]

Dinner at Deviant's Palace: Post apocalyptic. Fantastically good.

Ooo.. I like post apocalyptic. I'll look for it at Powells.



I don't mind feminism in my SF, two of my favorite authors are Ursula K. Le Guin and Sherri Tepper. I don't think feminism is a bad word, and I think the idea of feminism got a bad wrap.. although I do think it was stupid to burn bras, I'd rather burn high heels ( I know the bra burning thing was blown out of proportion) lol... all that to say that I'd check out some Carol Emshwiller as well.

[Omphalos]

Dinner at Deviant's Palace: Post apocalyptic. Fantastically good.

Ooo.. I like post apocalyptic. I'll look for it at Powells.



I don't mind feminism in my SF, two of my favorite authors are Ursula K. Le Guin and Sherri Tepper. I don't think feminism is a bad word, and I think the idea of feminism got a bad wrap.. although I do think it was stupid to burn bras, I'd rather burn high heels ( I know the bra burning thing was blown out of proportion) lol... all that to say that I'd check out some Carol Emshwiller as well.

I like feminist stories too. They tend to be much bloodier and wreck civilization more than non-feminist stories. Johanna Russ is good too.

And Dinner at Deviant's Palace is soooooo out of print. But not too hard to find. I see it on Amazon quite a bit in the used sellers book listings. Any hardback you find will be SFBC, unless its the Subterranean copy which costs a good bit more. SFBC these days can be got for $2.

[SandChigger]

Furry mutant aliens?

Yeah. Head to toe. (I think they had toes.) With three arms. And they routinely "make the trip to Stockholm" and back again. Without the knives. Although some of them carry knives. Built-in.

But it's hard(er) scifi, so....

[Freakzilla]

I'm just hoping to finish the chapter reviews of the six Dune books. After that I don't know. I want to go back and post a few good questions about each, which would mean reading them again, scanning them at least. I think something else would be a nice change of pace.

[Omphalos]

I'm just hoping to finish the chapter reviews of the six Dune books. After that I don't know. I want to go back and post a few good questions about each, which would mean reading them again, scanning them at least. I think something else would be a nice change of pace.

I was hoping you were going to get a Q&A type thing going later on.

[Freakzilla]

I'm just hoping to finish the chapter reviews of the six Dune books. After that I don't know. I want to go back and post a few good questions about each, which would mean reading them again, scanning them at least. I think something else would be a nice change of pace.

I was hoping you were going to get a Q&A type thing going later on.

I've been planning on doing study questions all along. Just doing the summaries was a daunting task in itself so I wanted to get that out of the way first. That way it will all be fairly fresh in my mind to think up good questions.

[Omphalos]

I'm just hoping to finish the chapter reviews of the six Dune books. After that I don't know. I want to go back and post a few good questions about each, which would mean reading them again, scanning them at least. I think something else would be a nice change of pace.

I was hoping you were going to get a Q&A type thing going later on.

I've been planning on doing study questions all along. Just doing the summaries was a daunting task in itself so I wanted to get that out of the way first. That way it will all be fairly fresh in my mind to think up good questions.

Sounds great! You will do this at Arrakeen, where more people can participate? You should add the questions at least here too. Ill bet you could publish something like that. SF literature classes would use it.

[Freakzilla]

I'm just hoping to finish the chapter reviews of the six Dune books. After that I don't know. I want to go back and post a few good questions about each, which would mean reading them again, scanning them at least. I think something else would be a nice change of pace.

I was hoping you were going to get a Q&A type thing going later on.

I've been planning on doing study questions all along. Just doing the summaries was a daunting task in itself so I wanted to get that out of the way first. That way it will all be fairly fresh in my mind to think up good questions.

Sounds great! You will do this at Arrakeen, where more people can participate? You should add the questions at least here too.

Will do.

Ill bet you could publish something like that. SF literature classes would use it.

Wow, I haven't even thought about anything like that. It'll need some tweeking. Some of the first few summaries were done by others before I took it over and I need to go back and redo them before I can say it's all mine. You think there would be that much interest in something like that?

[Omphalos]

Its hard to say. For collegate level classes they switch the books pretty frequently, so even if you ever did bring it to market (which is a steep uphill battle, Im told) you would not be guaranteed consistent sales. But Dune (the novel, not necessarially the series) has already produced three study guides written at the HS level (maybe Starmont is at college, I dont know), and two of them are still in print. Starmont is out of print not because of poor sales, but because the publisher failed. Even if you never published it yourself, it may be worth shopping around to those companies to see if they want to buy it. It would go into the SF reference category, so it would never make you a rich man, but you would join a short list of published Dune scholars.

My advice, though, is to think about what to do. If you decide you ever do want to try to market a Q&A Dune study guide is to refrain from putting it up either here or at Arrakeen. As hard a sell as its going to be anyway, you would probably never, ever sell it if you had already put it up for free on the web. Then again, there is always web-based pamphlet sales, which keep some people fed and housed. There are lots of options. None are real wealth makers, but you would make a mark, thats for sure.

[Freakzilla]

I wouldn't care about making money from it, though I wouldn't turn it down.

Published Dune Scholar sure does have a nice ring to it.

[Omphalos]

"Perfesser 'Zilla" has a nice ring to it, doesnt it?

And just think! Maybe KJA one day will start to claim that you are part of the crack "PhD Proofreaders" team! Wouldnt that be fun?

[Robspierre]

Right now I am reading BOY TOY by Barry Lygra (YA) and THE DRUIDS by Paul R. Lonigan from the contributions to the study of religion series.

Rob

[Robspierre]

Now reading GENTLEMAN'S GAME by Greg Rucka, a prose novel using his Queen & Country comic series characters.

Rob

[Omphalos]

Just started reading Watchmen again last night. Ive read this thing so many times I practically have a review written in my head after issue #1.

[Robspierre]

I seem to recall that a lot of the LOST writers were influenced by WATCHMAN as far as story structure goes. I prefer V FOR VENDETTA and PROMETHIA over WATCHMAN personally but its such a great romp to read. I'm hoping to get to Moore's pornography epic LOST GIRLS in the next month or so.

Rob

[Nekhrun]

Just started reading Watchmen again last night. Ive read this thing so many times I practically have a review written in my head after issue #1.

I've been pretty heavily influenced by The Watchmen as well, I'd be curious to see an Omphalos amateur review of it.

Now reading GENTLEMAN'S GAME by Greg Rucka

Did you read his novelization of Batman's No Man's Land? I thought it really added a lot to that storyline a few years back. He was a great Batman writer.

[GamePlayer]

I love Watchmen. One of Moore's best.

Reading the manga Five Star Stories right now and eagerly anticipating Iain M. Banks newest Culture novel.

[Omphalos]

I seem to recall that a lot of the LOST writers were influenced by WATCHMAN as far as story structure goes. I

I never thought about that, Rob, but that kind of makes sense. A bunch of emotionally wounded heroes, caught in a dystopic society with monsters and doomsday weapons at their fingertips, but just beyond their control. And Locke definately does have some Rorsarch qualities about him. He's most wounded by abandonment, and is pushed to do what feels morally right to him, no matter what the objective reality of that is, even though he is only slightly as sociopathic.

[Robspierre]

Sorry Nekhrun, I've only read Rucka's Kodiac and Queen and Country prose works but you are right, he was a damn good Batman writer and I must say, I enjoyed his Wonder Woman work as well.

I saw him and several other DC writers on a panel at San Diego in 2003, good stuff.

Omph, i know of one current comic writer who has written for LOST, Brian K. Vaughn, writer of Y THE LAST MAN.

Rob

[Ragabash]

I love Watchmen. One of Moore's best.

Reading the manga Five Star Stories right now and eagerly anticipating Iain M. Banks newest Culture novel.

I'm a huge fan of The Watchmen. Up until recently, I would have agreed that it was his finest work. However, after reading the unabriged version of From Hell, I have to change that opinion. Man, that book is TASTY. Talk about turning Victoriana on its ear with a minimum of effort, and making it explosive and satisfying.

[Omphalos]

I love Watchmen. One of Moore's best.

Reading the manga Five Star Stories right now and eagerly anticipating Iain M. Banks newest Culture novel.

I'm a huge fan of The Watchmen. Up until recently, I would have agreed that it was his finest work. However, after reading the unabriged version of From Hell, I have to change that opinion. Man, that book is TASTY. Talk about turning Victoriana on its ear with a minimum of effort, and making it explosive and satisfying.

Ive never heard of "From Hell" at all. I really dont collect or read graphic novels though.

Has anyone seen that comic adaptation of I Am Legend from the original Matheson text? I just saw it in the airport the other day, and have not read it yet. Was thinking of getting it.

[Robspierre]

From Hell is amazing, the appendices are just as worthwhile as the regular tale. I own a page of original art from FROM HELL signed by Eddie Campbell.

I've flipped through the I AM LEGEND adaption but really can't say how good it is, its black and white and it looked good at a glance.

Rob

[SandChigger]

From Hell?

Was that the basis of the movie with Johnny Depp by the same (I think) name?

[Omphalos]

From Hell?

Was that the basis of the movie with Johnny Depp by the same (I think) name?

God, I hope not. If it is, no fucking way I'm gonna bother with it.

[Omphalos]

From Hell is amazing, the appendices are just as worthwhile as the regular tale. I own a page of original art from FROM HELL signed by Eddie Campbell.

I've flipped through the I AM LEGEND adaption but really can't say how good it is, its black and white and it looked good at a glance.

Rob

I saw a prison cell at the end of the adaptation of I am Legend, so it looks at first glance true to the novel. I think I'm going to get it.

[Robspierre]

From Hell?

Was that the basis of the movie with Johnny Depp by the same (I think) name?

God, I hope not. If it is, no fucking way I'm gonna bother with it.

It is but there were there were numerous changes made to the source material, its very different from the movie.

Rob

[Omphalos]

From Hell?

Was that the basis of the movie with Johnny Depp by the same (I think) name?

God, I hope not. If it is, no fucking way I'm gonna bother with it.

It is but there were there were numerous changes made to the source material, its very different from the movie.

Rob

Oh. Seriously? That movie was the worst piece of crud. It was like that other one Freak and I were talking about; Event Horizon. People keep telling me how good it is, but I just don't know why they say that, because it really, really sucked.

[SandChigger]

Ugh. "Event Horizon" was one of the biggest wastes of time ever.

I kept expecting Pinhead to pop out from between the rolly-polly engine bits and ask:

DO I LOOK LIKE SOMEONE WHO CARES ABOUT SAM NEAL'S REPUTATION?!

[Nekhrun]

From Hell?

Was that the basis of the movie with Johnny Depp by the same (I think) name?

God, I hope not. If it is, no fucking way I'm gonna bother with it.

It is but there were there were numerous changes made to the source material, its very different from the movie.

Rob

I think that's just one of the reasons why Grant no longer wants anything to do with adaptations. He even requested that his name be taken off the credits in V for Vendetta. I'm pretty sure The Watchman was at one time optioned for a movie, but it's too bad he'd never have anything to do with it.

[GamePlayer]

I have to agree that "From Hell" the film was bloody awful. I haven't read the graphic novel, but I surely wouldn't sully Moore's book by ever associating it with the film adaptation. I've read enough of Moore's work to know he does quality writing more often than not. I'd give the book a chance if I were you.

Personally, I can't really blame Moore all that much for deriding the film adaptations of his books. From Hell and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen were absolute crap and even though I initially liked V For Vendetta, the more I watch that film, the more I'm put off by the modern politicizing the filmmakers added unnecessarily to the plot. Moore's graphic novel was far superior and had none of that polarizing, neo-Hollywood bullshit. The original was an indictment of government period.

Oh yeah, and Event Horizon was shite

[Omphalos]

From Hell?

Was that the basis of the movie with Johnny Depp by the same (I think) name?

God, I hope not. If it is, no fucking way I'm gonna bother with it.

It is but there were there were numerous changes made to the source material, its very different from the movie.

Rob

I think that's just one of the reasons why Grant no longer wants anything to do with adaptations. He even requested that his name be taken off the credits in V for Vendetta. I'm pretty sure The Watchman was at one time optioned for a movie, but it's too bad he'd never have anything to do with it.

V for Vendetta was truly awful too. Ragabash and I actually got into a heated argument about it.

I put League on twice, and fell asleep both times. That thing was a piece of shit.

[Robspierre]

Watchmen is being made by the bloke who directed 300 so it should be a close adaption.

I love the LoEG books and just finished THE BLACK DOSSIER which was a fun little romp. Trying to get through a bit more of my reading pile before I tackle LOST GIRLS.

Rob

[GamePlayer]

I like Zack Snyder, but I have to say I honestly don't expect much from this next Moore adaptation. Perhaps I'm just being negative, but I don't think Snyder is the right man for the job. Then again, this could be a chance for Snyder to display some chops and create a film with a lot more substance than the norm. If not, he'll always be welcome to direct more horror films and action epics. They were great

[Robspierre]

I didn't say it would be good but yeah it will be interesting to say the least.

Rob

[Omphalos]

I like Zack Snyder, but I have to say I honestly don't expect much from this next Moore adaptation. Perhaps I'm just being negative, but I don't think Snyder is the right man for the job. Then again, this could be a chance for Snyder to display some chops and create a film with a lot more substance than the norm. If not, he'll always be welcome to direct more horror films and action epics. They were great

Watchmen needs a miniseries. It just too deep for anything else.

[Robspierre]

Just finished PRIVATE WARS by Greg Rucka. Tara Chace rocks!

Rob

[SandChigger]

I've only seen "V..." once and liked it well enough for what it was. Maybe it wouldn't hold up after repeated viewings, though. (Note: it was on one of my satellite movie channels for a month, so I had the opportunity to watch it more than once. I didn't, so maybe that says something?)

But "League"...that was pure crap. (Isn't that one of the movies Kevin has done the novelization for? Talk about a waste of effort.)

Oh well, I haven't read any of the original "graphic novels" (sorry, but that term still makes me chuckle), so I'm just going from the movie versions.

[Omphalos]

I've only seen "V..." once and liked it well enough for what it was. Maybe it wouldn't hold up after repeated viewings, though. (Note: it was on one of my satellite movie channels for a month, so I had the opportunity to watch it more than once. I didn't, so maybe that says something?)

But "League"...that was pure crap. (Isn't that one of the movies Kevin has done the novelization for? Talk about a waste of effort.)

Oh well, I haven't read any of the original "graphic novels" (sorry, but that term still makes me chuckle), so I'm just going from the movie versions.

I think Kevvie did the movie tie-in for League. Imagine how riveting that one must have been.

[Ragabash]

From Hell?

Was that the basis of the movie with Johnny Depp by the same (I think) name?

God, I hope not. If it is, no fucking way I'm gonna bother with it.

It is. Don't let the movie fool you. As with most of Moore's material, they slaughtered it to make a buck. The original is over the top good.

[Ragabash]

I've only seen "V..." once and liked it well enough for what it was. Maybe it wouldn't hold up after repeated viewings, though. (Note: it was on one of my satellite movie channels for a month, so I had the opportunity to watch it more than once. I didn't, so maybe that says something?)

But "League"...that was pure crap. (Isn't that one of the movies Kevin has done the novelization for? Talk about a waste of effort.)

Oh well, I haven't read any of the original "graphic novels" (sorry, but that term still makes me chuckle), so I'm just going from the movie versions.

I think Kevvie did the movie tie-in for League. Imagine how riveting that one must have been.

Again, the movie version of League didn't bother with much fidelity to Moore's original work. The comic League was pretty good, but not his best work.

[Omphalos]

You gotta let me see the pile that you have, bro. I still want to get those zombie comics you loaned me a long time ago. I think I read the first one or two and loved it, then never got the rest. Do you know what Im talking about; what they are called? Because I dont remember.

[Ragabash]

You gotta let me see the pile that you have, bro. I still want to get those zombie comics you loaned me a long time ago. I think I read the first one or two and loved it, then never got the rest. Do you know what Im talking about; what they are called? Because I dont remember.

The Walking Dead, which is fantastic.

Sadly, I borrowed most of these comics we're discussing. I want to backfill my collection, however, so when I get them, you can borrow them.

Right now I'm in the middle of 100 Bullets (also borrowed, but excellent) and The Invisibles (strange, esoteric and very tasty).

[Omphalos]

You gotta let me see the pile that you have, bro. I still want to get those zombie comics you loaned me a long time ago. I think I read the first one or two and loved it, then never got the rest. Do you know what Im talking about; what they are called? Because I dont remember.

The Walking Dead, which is fantastic.

Sadly, I borrowed most of these comics we're discussing. I want to backfill my collection, however, so when I get them, you can borrow them.

Right now I'm in the middle of 100 Bullets (also borrowed, but excellent) and The Invisibles (strange, esoteric and very tasty).

I just finished a reread of Watchmen last night. Great book. I started Charles Harness' The Paradox Men.

[Robspierre]

I'm four volumes into Transmetropolitan which fucking hilarious. Queen & Country is a great thriller, and I've enjoyed Hellblazer throughout the years, the movie version Constantine was ok, but Keanu Reeves os not John Constantine by any stretch of the imagination. Preacher still rocks my world every time I read it.

Rob

[Omphalos]

I like Zack Snyder, but I have to say I honestly don't expect much from this next Moore adaptation. Perhaps I'm just being negative, but I don't think Snyder is the right man for the job. Then again, this could be a chance for Snyder to display some chops and create a film with a lot more substance than the norm. If not, he'll always be welcome to direct more horror films and action epics. They were great

What of Moore's has Snyder done in the past, GamePlayer?

[GamePlayer]

He hasn't. I said "this" next Moore adaptation, not "his." Other than V For Vendetta, I don't really know who directed From Hell or League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen and I really don't care to know, LOL.

Zack Snyder has done the Dawn of the Dead (2004) remake and the action epic 300. I've really enjoyed both, but like I said, as well made and enjoyable as they are, there isn't much substance to either. Granted, Snyder is the shit right now, so I can see why the studio's gave him Watchmen after Aronofsky balked. But to say I'm concerned is an understatement. Snyder is gonna have to dig his heels in deep to pull this one off to my satisfaction.

[Robspierre]

The Hughes Brothers directed FROM HELL and while it wasn't the greatest i respect them, the decisions they made in adaption and the reasoning for doing so makes for a fascinating look into the screenwriting and film making.

Rob

[GamePlayer]

I've not seen any of their other films. Production wise, From Hell was good even if the script was awful.

[Robspierre]

Here you go:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes_Brothers

Rob

[GamePlayer]

Yeah, I already check out their filmography, but on the IMDB. Thanks anyway.

[Phaedrus]

Back on topic, I never really got into Ilium, but I'm over 100 pages into Fall of Hyperion.

And I picked up 7 Steps to Midnight by Richard Matheson, which should be a quick read.

Also planning a reread of the Dune books and LotR sometime.

[Omphalos]

Just started The Healer's War last night, by Elizabeth Ann Scarborough.

[Omphalos]

Got bored with The Healer's War, and picked up Stations of the Tide by Michael Swanwick.

[tanzeelat]

Stations of the Tide is very good, although I didn't like quite as much as I did the first time I read it many years ago.

My to read pile is embarrassingly large. I just finished Charles Stross' Glasshouse - well, I've been acquainted with the bloke for years, so I thought I should read something of his. And Glasshouse looked like it appealed to me the most. Basing a civilisation on network architecture was interesting, although he had to stretch the metaphor a bit in places. Unfortunately, the book's ending was weak - the answer to the plot wasn't as inventive as had been promised, and it all finished with a big shoot 'em up.

After I've finished the book I'm currently reading - an anthology of WWII poetry and prose - I'll probably make a start on Richard Morgan's Black Man.

[Liege-Killer]

I'm making my way through Brunner's Stand on Zanzibar.

After that I'm thinking of reading some more of Le Guin's Hainish novels.

[Omphalos]

Stations of the Tide is very good, although I didn't like quite as much as I did the first time I read it many years ago.

The only Swanwick that I like more as I re-read it is Griffin's Egg. Most of the rest doesn't stand up very well. Hes like Ben Bova like that, and John Varley.

[Mandy]

I'm making my way through Brunner's Stand on Zanzibar.

After that I'm thinking of reading some more of Le Guin's Hainish novels.

I just recently.. well in the last year anyway, got hooked on Le Guin. I love The Dispossessed, can't remember if you said you read that one or not.

[Omphalos]

I actually like the political aspects of The Dispossessed more than the gender stuff in Left Hand. Ive got five Hanish books sitting in the pile for review too.

[Robspierre]

LeGuin is just good stuff all around.

Rob

[Liege-Killer]

I love The Dispossessed, can't remember if you said you read that one or not.

Yeah, I read it not too long ago.

I actually like the political aspects of The Dispossessed more than the gender stuff in Left Hand.

The gender stuff didn't really strike me as all that important. I actually like the political aspects of Left Hand more than the political aspects of Dispossessed.

[Mandy]

Me too, Liege. I didn't pay much attention to the gender issues except in how it effected the politics and how Genly dealt with them.

Have you read The Telling? I loved that one too, I think I liked it better than The Dispossessed.

[Liege-Killer]

Have you read The Telling? I loved that one too, I think I liked it better than The Dispossessed.

I bought a 1st edition off ebay several weeks ago, and I'm wondering if it got lost in the mail.

[Omphalos]

I love The Dispossessed, can't remember if you said you read that one or not.

Yeah, I read it not too long ago.

I actually like the political aspects of The Dispossessed more than the gender stuff in Left Hand.

The gender stuff didn't really strike me as all that important. I actually like the political aspects of Left Hand more than the political aspects of Dispossessed.

Ill have to address that when I review it.

[Tleilax Master B]

Perhaps off topic, I read Ender's Game a month or two ago. I hadn't read it in years. For some reason, I just didn't like it as much as I did before. Maybe it was already knowing how it ended, but I had an incredibly difficult time suspending my disbelief. Although I realize its intended to some extent to be this way, the kids just don't seem to have any aspect of youth in the characters. Its like they are adults from day one. Granted, Ender and his siblings have the weight of the world on their shoulders to some extent or another, but when I first read it I could see the conflict between immaturity and enormous responsibility and oppression. I just couldn't relate to it this time. It was very dissapointing to me, as I always considered it one of the best Sci Fi books. I've been meaning to post a comment on your book review site Omph, but figured I just do it here.

[Omphalos]

Ill bump the review over here, if anyone else wants to comment.

[Tleilax Master B]

Ill bump the review over here, if anyone else wants to comment.

Feel free to move my comments to that section.

[Omphalos]

Ah. Its too hard for me to think about how to do at work. Besides, there are a bunch of comments over there already. Oh well.

[GamePlayer]

Big O's note to self: must learn all admin panel commands as part of fun of moderating

[Omphalos]

Yes, yes. Im a dungeon master newbie. Ill get it down soon.

That reminds me, does anyone else love Patton Oswalt's AD&D character on Reno 911?

[Liege-Killer]

RE: Ender's Game

I, too, thought it was a fantastic book the first time I read it, but got less enjoyment out of it the second time through. I don't know why that is.

It could partly be that I'm just not big on re-reading books (or re-watching movies for that matter). There are so many books out there, I'd rather read something I haven't read before. It's rare that I read a book a second time unless it's one of a few cherished favorites, or unless it's part of some kind of reading group.

[Star Dust]

My Goodreads.com link. Includes "shelves" on what I'm reading, what I've read and what I want to read.

http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/650582

[Omphalos]

Just started "I Dream of a Drowned Star City," by S.P. Somtow last night. Should finish tonight, it reads so quickly.

[Liege-Killer]

I went to a book sale at the library in a nearby city today. There was a table of sci-fi with a few hundred books, but I kid you not, fully half of them were Star Trek and Star Wars novels.

And some of the other books I was interested in were too damaged to consider.

All in all, I came away with a lousy two paperbacks. Pathetic.

[Omphalos]

Thought I answered this? Oh well. I guess I brain-farted and forgot to his Submit.

That totally sucks, L-K. What time did you arrive? I try to be in the first batch so I get my pick of the lot.

[SandChigger]

Going to start Dan Simmons' collection Prayers to Broken Stones this afton.

[Liege-Killer]

Thought I answered this? Oh well. I guess I brain-farted and forgot to his Submit.

You hit "edit" instead of "quote" -- you added your reply to my post.

[Omphalos]

Man, I am always fucking doing that. Ill go fix it. Sorry!

[Phaedrus]

Recently finished the Fall of Hyperion. My thought was that, damn, I wish Dan Simmons had written the Butlerian Jihad prequels. There's a guy who can write a realistic AI vs. Mankind battle, without using bad cliches or unbelievable characters.

I don't really know what's "in the pile," so to speak. I've got some PKD to read, a lot of nonfiction, and some random stuff, but nothing really big on the list. I may visit a bookstore soon.

[Omphalos]

3/4 of the way through The Black Cloud, by Fred Hoyle. After that, I'm thinking some Heinlein is in order.

[SandChigger]

Recently finished the Fall of Hyperion. My thought was that, damn, I wish Dan Simmons had written the Butlerian Jihad prequels. There's a guy who can write a realistic AI vs. Mankind battle, without using bad cliches or unbelievable characters.

Haven't I been telling you that for the last six months or so?!

[Phaedrus]

Recently finished the Fall of Hyperion. My thought was that, damn, I wish Dan Simmons had written the Butlerian Jihad prequels. There's a guy who can write a realistic AI vs. Mankind battle, without using bad cliches or unbelievable characters.

Haven't I been telling you that for the last six months or so?!

Probably. I haven't been paying attention.

[SandChigger]

Nobody listens to me mumble mumble mumble...

[Star Dust]

eh? you say sumthin?

[Mandy]

I am right in the middle of Catch-22. I love it, it's so different. Can't believe I never read it before.

[Omphalos]

I am right in the middle of Catch-22. I love it, it's so different. Can't believe I never read it before.

That is a good one. I have not read it for many years. Did you ever see the movie?

[Robspierre]

ALL THE PRETTY HORSES Cormac McCarthy

Rob

[Mandy]

I am right in the middle of Catch-22. I love it, it's so different. Can't believe I never read it before.

That is a good one. I have not read it for many years. Did you ever see the movie?

Nope, missed that one. Was it any good?

[Tleilax Master B]

I'm about to read A Walk in the Woods by Bryson. My wife keeps insisting I read it....

[Omphalos]

I am right in the middle of Catch-22. I love it, it's so different. Can't believe I never read it before.

That is a good one. I have not read it for many years. Did you ever see the movie?

Nope, missed that one. Was it any good?

Very good. Get it after you read the book, though.

[Star Dust]

I just picked the audio book for Bryson's History of Everything. Work is somewhat bearable now.

[Omphalos]

I'm about to read A Walk in the Woods by Bryson. My wife keeps insisting I read it....

A good book. I hiked the App. Trail when I was younger. It was every bit as rough as he notes it is.

[Ragabash]

ALL THE PRETTY HORSES Cormac McCarthy

Rob

That's a burly goddamn book. I love it.

[Omphalos]

He reminds me a lot of JG Ballard. If you like McCarthy you probably will like Ballard too (his dystopian stuff that is, like The Crystal World, The Drowned World, High Rise, Crash, etc, etc).

[Tleilax Master B]

I'm about to read A Walk in the Woods by Bryson. My wife keeps insisting I read it....

A good book. I hiked the App. Trail when I was younger. It was every bit as rough as he notes it is.

I'm jealous, that's something I have always wanted to do. At the risk of sounding like KJA ( don't even imply it chumps), I'm actually a big outdoorsman. Backpacking is one of my big hobbies. I would love to do the App Trail.

[Freakzilla]

I went for a week one October in PA , it was beautifull.

[SandChigger]

Backpacking is one of my big hobbies.

Yes, we've seen the pix with Master C in one.

[Liege-Killer]

Finally, at long last, I finished off Stand on Zanzibar (actually it didn't take me quite as long as I thought it would). Now, I really really want a copy of Chad Mulligan's The Hipcrime Vocab!

I started in on Le Guin's Rocannon's World this morning (I have the Three Hainish Novels volume). I also finally got my copy of The Telling in the mail, after coming to believe the USPS had lost it.

[Omphalos]

Ive got that omnibus edition too, and it and two other Ekumen novels are sitting in the pile. I just haven't had the heart to start them all.

I did start Chad Oliver's A Star Above It last night. Some of the best SF ever written, as far as I am concerned. Though Ive only read a bit of his stuff in the past, I'm really looking forward to his two volume series that I got for Christmas this year. This is one of them, and its looking awesome.

[Robspierre]

ALL THE PRETTY HORSES Cormac McCarthy

Rob

That's a burly goddamn book. I love it.

Me too, he's been tramping around my area for the last several years doing his research.

Rob

[Phaedrus]

I just read C.S. Lewis's The Screwtape Letters.

I thought it sucked tremendous balls. Why do people think he's a good writer? Or a good thinker, for that matter?

[tanzeelat]

I've jusy started Iain Banks' new novel, Matter.

[GamePlayer]

I've jusy started Iain Banks' new novel, Matter.

It's out? Damn! It's a fucking holiday today; nothing will be open. Grrr. This one really sneaked by me, especially since I was waiting and watching for it. Then again, I hope it's actually available here in Canada. I'll give Chapters a call and see if they are open today.

[Liege-Killer]

I finished with Rocannon's World. Wow, must be the shortest novel I've ever read; almost closer to a novelette. I'm keeping that omnibus edition at work to read during lunch and breaks, so tomorrow I'll be starting Planet of Exile.

At home, I've started on an ORB -- an official Omphalos-Reviewed Book! That would be The Joy Makers by James Gunn.

[SandChigger]

I got the Three Hainish Novels collection YEARS ago when I was a member of the Science Fiction Book Club. Reread it a few summers back while home in the States. I do love Le Guin.

[Mandy]

I love her because no matter how far into a reading slump I am, I can always count on one of her books to bring me out of it. She's right up there with Frank Herbert in my opinion.

[Omphalos]

Just started the SFWA's collection of the best short stories in SF up to 1964, edited by Silverberg. Im also finishing We, by Yevgeny Zamaytin (pardon my spelling. I know that is wrong, but the book is still in the crapper and I'm too lazy to go get it).

[Omphalos]

Finished a few other things and now Im finishing up the SFWA book, but I think Ill start A Canticle for Liebowitz tomorrow.

[Liege-Killer]

Started Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep last night. I've heard great things about this author, but this is my first taste. So far so good.

[SandChigger]

Is that the one where the title is a reference to an I Jing hexagram?

(Fire over Water, forming a condition of Transition? )

[Liege-Killer]

Is that the one where the title is a reference to an I Jing hexagram?

(Fire over Water, forming a condition of Transition? )

I wouldn't have the first clue what a condition of Transition is...... so uhh..... no idea. Maybe someone else can take that one.

[Nekhrun]

I just picked up Prelude to Foundation and Foundation. They have been recommended to me for years and I just never got around to them. I guess I will see if it was worth the wait.

[tanzeelat]

Foundation is the first book in the Foundation trilogy. Prelude to Foundation was written years later. I remember enjoying the Foundation trilogy when I was a kid, but I reread it recently and thought it was terrible. Asimov is definitely a Golden Age of sf writer - i.e., he should only be read when you're thirteen years old.

[Nekhrun]

Foundation is the first book in the Foundation trilogy. Prelude to Foundation was written years later. I remember enjoying the Foundation trilogy when I was a kid, but I reread it recently and thought it was terrible. Asimov is definitely a Golden Age of sf writer - i.e., he should only be read when you're thirteen years old.

Not good to hear.

[Omphalos]

Dont worry about that, Nekhrun. The Foundation books are dated, but most people love them. Even if you finish Foundation and think that you have read better, there are still ideas and concepts in there that will stay with you for years and years. I think that they are almost required reading for SF genre lovers.

As for it being "terrible," well, that is one person's opinion. I myself dont love it as much as I used to. But the other big book that kind of falls into this category, Stranger in a Strange Land, I hate even more now than Foundadion, and I loved them both as a kid.

The first five novelettes of Foundation will probably grip you. The last four novellas are not as strong, but are good. You should enjoy it your first time through. I have a review too, if you want to see what you are in for (with SPOILERS, though!!)

[Omphalos]

Just started Slaughterhouse-Five, by Kurt Vonnegut. Excellent book!

[tanzeelat]

Read it many, many years ago. The movie is... disappointing. Why can't Hollywood remake that instead of bloody The Day The Earth Stood Still? Oh, wait. The film of Slaughterhouse Five flopped. They wouldn't remake a flop. It might flop again.

[Liege-Killer]

Hey Omph! I just finished The Joy Makers; loved it, loved it, loved it, instant favorite! Great philosophical, thinking man's science fiction. I will definitely be getting more of Gunn's work. By the way, I still need you to set me up for commenting on your review site, please.

[Omphalos]

Hey Omph! I just finished The Joy Makers; loved it, loved it, loved it, instant favorite! Great philosophical, thinking man's science fiction. I will definitely be getting more of Gunn's work. By the way, I still need you to set me up for commenting on your review site, please.

Sorry, L-K. I completely forgot.

Check your PM box.

My favorite book by Gunn is The Listeners, but the Immortals is really, really good too. Kampus runs a close fourth place for me.

That reminds me, too. I don't think I ever finished my review of The Joy Makers!

[Omphalos]

Ick! That review is horribly written. Ill redo it tonight or tomorrow.

[Ragabash]

Just started Slaughterhouse-Five, by Kurt Vonnegut. Excellent book!

That's such a good book, I need to read it again. I've reread Breakfast of Champions and Cat's Cradle recently, both were staggering. It's amazing how Vonnegut's writing, while superficially dated, transcends time and manages to be relevant today. Thank god he left behind such a rich legacy.

[Omphalos]

Me too, but Breakfast of Champions? I'm pretty sure that was made up entirely of chapters he cut out of all his other books.

I saw a copy of a paperback written by Kilgore Trout the last time I was in Seattle. I think it was ghosted by Farmer, and I almost bought it.

[Freakzilla]

I recommend Julian May's Saga of Pliocene Exile, starting with The Many Colored Land. Her Galactic Milieu and Intervention series are good too. All set in the same near future universe with many of the same characters.

[Omphalos]

I going to read those soon and review them, Freak.

[Omphalos]

I just started A Princess of Mars, and Im just finishing up A Canticle for Liebowitz.

[GamePlayer]

Every time I hear that name, I can't help but think of the famous photographer

[SandChigger]

Am 50 pages into Consider Phlebas.

This is my first Banks. I was caught on the first page with the factory ship.

Dayum.

...

WHY THE FUCK DID BRIAN HERBERT HAVE TO CHOOSE A FUCKING HACK AS HIS COAUTHOR ON THE NEW DUNE BOOKS??????

Ahem...sorry.

[Freakzilla]

Brain damage? I guess you could call it Brian Damage.

[SandChigger]

[Omphalos]

Finishing The Martian General's Daughter this evening, though the main character is no a Martian. He just hung out there for a while.

[SandChigger]

Now three or four chapters into The Player of Games. (Go T'pog! )

QUITE enjoyed Consider Phlebas.

The time frame revealed in the Appendices was a bit of a shock. (What, then, does "human" mean, really? Is this a Battlestar-Galactica-type universe? I'm deliberately avoiding online synopses and such, so as not to spoil. )

[Robspierre]

Coming up when the semster is over next tuesday, THE ROAD Cormac McCarthy.

Rob

[Freakzilla]

I've only got a few chapters left on each of the Dune books besides Messiah, after that I'm thinking about doing a chapter-by-chapter of FH's other books.

[Omphalos]

Just started a few Heinlein books.

[GamePlayer]

Now three or four chapters into The Player of Games. (Go T'pog! )

QUITE enjoyed Consider Phlebas.

The time frame revealed in the Appendices was a bit of a shock. (What, then, does "human" mean, really? Is this a Battlestar-Galactica-type universe? I'm deliberately avoiding online synopses and such, so as not to spoil. )

AWESOME! Another fan

I think you should read some more Culture books before I answer that question. I don't want to spoil anything for you (though I'm having trouble remembering where exactly they deal with that). Anyway, read The Player of Games and we'll talk

[SandChigger]

I was kinda surprised by what happened to Horza, you know?

And by what Balveda later did.

But I'm glad I picked the winning side.

[GamePlayer]

Yeah. There was actually quite a few parts that were crazy. That whole sequence on the island was creepy. But it was great how Horza got out of it. I love Horza's nails

I loved how the last third of the book is written in consecutively shorter and shorter chapters. The climax is just astonishing. I couldn't put the damn book down; I had to keep reading the next chapter and the next and the next. It became like a race and I remember it was getting difficult to sit still. I recall reading some chapters standing.

The Idirans were actually quite formidable and very technically advanced (though I sometimes wonder how they could have ever become so advanced with such backward, stunted thinking), they just had no clue what they were getting into. I recall some reviewers making parallels between the Idiran/Culture War and the Vietnam war (though The Culture was ALWAYS the more powerful side in this case) because of the poor, unthinking way in which the Idirans tried to fight the war. I thought it was brilliant the way Banks wrote about the war, showing the reality of a conflict in space where one empire has no fixed assests and is in fact entirely mobile.

It's amazing how much I rmemeber of that book. I've not reread it for several years, but I can recall so much from it. Good stuffs

[SandChigger]

Um...I was trying to forget the island bits (erp), thank you.

I especially liked the "Murphy's Law in Action" aspect of so much of what happened.

This was a nice touch:

Nevertheless, the chronicles of the galaxy's elder civilisations rate the Idiran-Culture war as the most significant conflict of the past fifty thousand years, and one of those singularly interesting Events they see so rarely these days.

[GamePlayer]

*evil grin* My pleasure (mwuahahahahaha)

Oh yeah, the final section of the book was just great. I was blown away by the sense of tension and momentum in the writing. I was utterly hypnotized. Great stuff.

Hehehe, no doubt a not-so-subtle dig against the sorry state of sci-fi in general.

[SandChigger]

Yeah, I didn't comment on that..."crescendo" last night, but I know what you mean.

Oh-oh.



(I was up and down with an upset stomach last night, so I got a bit further into TPoG. Gurgeh has just been man...er, machine-handled and propositioned. )

[inhuien]

GamePlayer, did you get Matter yet?

[GamePlayer]

No, not yet. It's simply not coming around here. I'm going to have to import it.

[SandChigger]

Worked for me.



(The only Amazon branch I haven't done business with and have an account on is the China one. )

[GamePlayer]

I've got a Japanese account, but not a UK one. Looks like it's time to get one. Should be a lot easier in english

[SandChigger]

What, you think they use English on the UK site?

[inhuien]

What, you think they use English on the UK site?

Aye, the Queens ya Bam

[SandChigger]

God rest thee, merry (bouncy) gentleman, I'm sure.

(Wheeeee!)

[SandChigger]

Currently halfway through "The State Of The Art", Bank's second Culture story in the collection by the same name.

Mr Teg and I swapped books last week when he was up for the PoDcast. He's reading my copy of Brian Herbert's master(batori?)ful Timeweb and I'm going to read Sidney's Comet before proceeding on to Bank's Use of Weapons.

A quick glance at a random page or two in the BH was enough to make me wonder if it might not be interesting. The style is definitely different from that in Timeweb...so you have to wonder:

- How much influence (or intervention?) was there from FH on BH when he was writing the book?

- How much influence has the collaboration with KJA had on BH's writing?

and

- How much of the execrable Timeweb is due to BH's early senility and obvious mental deficiencies?

(Seriously, WHY on earth did the family ever let that book see print?! It's THAT bad. )

[Liege-Killer]

- How much of the execrable Timeweb is due to BH's early senility and obvious mental deficiencies?

(Seriously, WHY on earth did the family ever let that book see print?! It's THAT bad. )

No idea about all that, but I once started reading BH's The Race for God, and it was pretty bad; I don't think I even made it through 50 pages before giving up.

[Freakzilla]

My wife brought home a stack of Edgar Rice Burroughs books, any good?

[Omphalos]

Hit or miss. Pellucidar is great. The Barsoom series is pretty good (check out the book reviews for a pretty thorough review of A Princess of Mars, the first), At Earth's core is wonderful, The Venus books are OK to pretty good. There are way too many of those damn Tarzan books, and I dont like any of them. I like the Moon Maid and The Land That Time Forgot.

He was pretty prolific. What do you have?

[tanzeelat]

Lin Carter was a hack, but his Jandar of Callisto books are a pretty good homage to ERB's Barsoom books.

[Omphalos]

Never read Lin Carter before. That's the author's name?

[Freakzilla]

Pellucidar is great.

She got a bunch of those, five maybe. I'll throw them on the pile.

There's a whole bunch of "Martian Tales" books and one Tarzan. They sound juvenile, maybe my 11-y-o will read them.

[Omphalos]

I think a kid would really like them. Give A Princess of Mars a try and see what you think.


Though Ive never read but the first Pellucidar book.

[SandChigger]

I've started Sidney's Comet, but since it has thus far been "before conk out reading" I haven't progressed very far. I fear it's going to be slow going. (I dropped it once and nearly a second time last night; put it away after the second. —Don't worry, Teg, no damage! )

It's supposed to be a comedy, right? (I keep telling myself that. Otherwise...)

My first impression from a quick glance-thru has not changed: it is better than anything else written (or purportedly co-written) by Brian Herbert that I have read to date. He hasn't quite pulled me in yet, though, so the ole disbelief is still grounded.

In just a few pages I've already found things that rub the wrong way, naturally. A big one is his "cell memory." (How original!)

Frank Herbert can be excused for making genetic memory a major part of the Dune universe because of when he began writing the books. By 1984, however, it should have been becoming clear that such things were not possible.

Hmmm. Then again, maybe not? When was that horrid movie with William Hurt eating a lizard made? (Altered States. 1980. Gah.) Oh well, we KNOW that Brian isn't the most savvy pea in the pod when it comes to scientific developements.

[Omphalos]

Good thing his partner has a B.A. in physics to keep him straight, no?

[SandChigger]

But who's there to keep him straight?

[Omphalos]

But who's there to keep him straight?

I'm pretty sure that whenever he is "correcting" Brian, he is as straight as he is capable of getting.

[Robspierre]

Good thing his partner has a B.A. in physics to keep him straight, no?

More like a Bull Shit of science 8)

Rob

[SandChigger]

Hmm. 42 pages in now and I'm asking myself why I'm reading this...farce again...other than just to be able to say that I've read something of Brian Herbert's other than his "Dune" crap.

The writing isn't terrible like that in Timeweb; it's adequate, I suppose, but doesn't thrill me. It's the story that's failing in this one.

The president's "coffee service" was kind of a "dromedary dorsal destructor", though.

[Phaedrus]

I just finished Vonnegut's Player Piano, and I'm considering going for Breakfast of Champions, Timequake and Slaughterhouse Five(the Vonnegut books that I haven't read and have access to) next.

I picked up Consider Phlebas the other day, and it's been really interesting so far(I think the culture in Player Piano might be considered a pre-Culture, er, culture, actually. Vonnegut on the mind lately). I skipped most of that conversation between SC and GamePlayer on the subject, because I don't want any spoilers.

But I'll probably get through the Vonnegut, first. I can read his books in a couple of sittings, as opposed to most other books I read.

[SandChigger]

I read a bit more of Comet last night after taking a break for two days or so (I'm just reading it right before sleeping or a little after waking). "Currents" in space and a "comet" threatening Earth seemingly from a distant point of origin light years away, dimwits rollerskating around in "moto-shoes"...what can I say but...tedious.

I'm looking forward to getting back to Banks!

[Omphalos]

Started on Greg Bear's Hardfought, and will likely finish it tonight. Its pretty cool. After that I have Harry Harrison's Make Room! Make Room!

I really liked Player Piano, but I have never read a culture novel. I have Consider Phlebas in the pile though.

Chig, is "Comet" one of those Timeweb books? Why do you do that to yourself?

[A Thing of Eternity]

I hear constant good things about Banks, but the one book of his that I've read is Consider Phlebas and I really didn't enjoy it that much. It read well, and had some interesting ideas, I just didn't see the point when I finished it. Ever get that feeling? Maybe I should try one of his other books.

Considering I just finished sadworms and have (for the first time in a while) nothing in the pile, I have to find something really good to bring back my love for literature. I haven't even had the urge to go near a book the last couple days.

[SandChigger]

P & B as Reader Killers. Oh no....


Omph, sorry, "Comet" is Sidney's Comet, from 1984 or so.

I forget, have you read it? Gah! Ssssss! Tleeeee!

[Omphalos]

P & B as Reader Killers. Oh no....


Omph, sorry, "Comet" is Sidney's Comet, from 1984 or so.

I forget, have you read it? Gah! Ssssss! Tleeeee!

The only one by him I recall reading was something about a comet made of garbage. When I was talking to Teg I thought he mentioned that it may be that book, but I'm not sure. Was it part of a "garbage trilogy" (nyuk-nyuk-nyuk!) I cant remember the name. But I did read the first few chapters of Time Web. Awful!

[SandChigger]

That's the one, a book of garbage about a comet made of garbage: Sidney's Comet.

At first it seemed a lot better than anything else I have read with his name on it—and I still think that technically it isn't all that bad...and have to wonder how much of a hand FH might have had in it—but after a while the heavy-handed satire (I suppose it is supposed to be?) just gets to be too much. And the science part of it is just plain stupid/silly.

Maybe it was funny and/or witty back in 1984 or so; it was a different time and all. But now it just falls flat.

[Omphalos]

...but after a while the heavy-handed satire (I suppose it is supposed to be?) just gets to be too much. And the science part of it is just plain stupid/silly.

That was pretty much my impression too. Brian Herbert is a really clumsy writer, and I dont trust him to be able to write an actual "theater of the absurd" type manuscript. That takes knowledge and restraint, neither of which he has. I just got the impression that he had lost control of a social satire he was trying to write, and was too lazy to even try to make the science at least believeable.

[Phaedrus]

Started and finished Slaughterhouse Five today, moving on to Timequake...

And the pile is:
Consider Phlebas (Banks)
Breakfast of Champions (Vonnegut)
On the Road (Jack Kerouac)
Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World (Haruki Murakami)
Haunted (Chuck Palahniuk)
Philip K. Dick: Four Novels of the 1960s(library of America thing)

I'm sure I have things to read other than these, but these are literally in a pile.

[SandChigger]

Who's the translator of the Murakami?


I tried reading his Noruwei no Mori ("Norwegian Woods") when it came out, the first year I was over here. (It was recommended to me by a Japanese friend.) I only made it through the first volume (of two). I think I have a small bunkobon paperback edition of the one you list around here somewhere; bought it but never got round to reading it.

[Phaedrus]

'Translated by Alfred Birnbaum'

What I've read of this one has been good, and I've heard the Wind-Up Bird Chronicle is also good. It's definitely different.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Hey Gameplayer, I figure with all the rave reviews I should give Banks another try. What's the best book to go to after Phlebas?

[SandChigger]

Read some more of Comet this morning; still got about 70 pages to get through.

I just got the impression that he had lost control of a social satire he was trying to write, and was too lazy to even try to make the science at least believeable.

And he's not even consistent in that. I've been collecting some of the sillier gaffes:

"I remember not so awfully long ago," the blind man said, "when it took much longer...before G-gas allowed passengers to travel at high speeds."

Fooking Hell, the man's understanding of motion has not progressed in twenty years. (Isn't this a variation on the machines being able to withstand higher velocities in the Legends books?) It's not "high speeds" that people can't take, it's HIGH ACCELERATIONS. Shit.

He writes about "currents" in space, but then later gives the reader this:

Spaceships entered and left through iron gates which clanked noisily in airless space as they opened and closed. He knew this was impossible, but his dream permitted no questions.

So he knows you can't have sound in "airless space"; he obviously just doesn't care that that means you also can't have currents in it.

The old blind man mentioned above turns out to be a "chameloperson" ("Very convenient for undercover work.") and the first thing I thought of was the Mutati in Timeweb, a comparison primed by the miraculous healing of the title character's physical infirmities just a few paragraphs before. (Noah Watanabe is similarly healed at the end of Timeweb; plus there's always Sponge Paub.)

I shudder to think what silliness awaits me in the remaining pages. The characters' actions often seem at odds with their stated plans (they are not, overall, the sharpest pencils in the cup, after all), so there's really little point in trying to keep track of them. Not a book I'm going to be recommending, I think.

[SandChigger]

'Translated by Alfred Birnbaum'

That's what I figured; he seems to be (or at least was) Murakami's official translator. I haven't looked at any of the translations.

What I've read of this one has been good, and I've heard the Wind-Up Bird Chronicle is also good. It's definitely different.

Kinda funny: I just checked the Japanese WP page and the elements are reversed in the title; it's Sekai no Owari to Haadoboirudo Wandaarando in Japanese. I wonder if the change is significant. I've heard/seen the title of the other one (Nejimaki Tori Kuronikuru), but not much about it. Ah well...enjoy!

[Omphalos]

'Translated by Alfred Birnbaum'

That's what I figured; he seems to be (or at least was) Murakami's official translator. I haven't looked at any of the translations.

What I've read of this one has been good, and I've heard the Wind-Up Bird Chronicle is also good. It's definitely different.

Kinda funny: I just checked the Japanese WP page and the elements are reversed in the title; it's Sekai no Owari to Haadoboirudo Wandaarando in Japanese. I wonder if the change is significant. I've heard/seen the title of the other one (Nejimaki Tori Kuronikuru), but not much about it. Ah well...enjoy!

You mean its like, "The bird winds up?" or "The Bird is wound""

What are you saying? I dont speak Japanese

[Phaedrus]

'Translated by Alfred Birnbaum'

That's what I figured; he seems to be (or at least was) Murakami's official translator. I haven't looked at any of the translations.

What I've read of this one has been good, and I've heard the Wind-Up Bird Chronicle is also good. It's definitely different.

Kinda funny: I just checked the Japanese WP page and the elements are reversed in the title; it's Sekai no Owari to Haadoboirudo Wandaarando in Japanese. I wonder if the change is significant. I've heard/seen the title of the other one (Nejimaki Tori Kuronikuru), but not much about it. Ah well...enjoy!

You mean its like, "The bird winds up?" or "The Bird is wound""

What are you saying? I dont speak Japanese

I assume he's talking about the book I have, Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World, which is probably Sekai no Owari to Haadoboirudo Wandaarando (which I assume is The End of the World and Hardboiled Wonderland, or something close? Those last two words look like "Hardboiled Wonderland" sort of converted to Japanese, so that's my guess...).

[SandChigger]

Sorry...that wasn't very clear, was it.

The Japanese title of the book Phaedrus first mentioned reverses the order of the elements; it's The End of the World and Hardboiled Wonderland. (And yes, the second is just borrowed direct and adapted to the Japanese sound system.)

The avian one is pretty straightforward, "wind-up-bird", like a wind-up toy or something.

[GamePlayer]

Hey Gameplayer, I figure with all the rave reviews I should give Banks another try. What's the best book to go to after Phlebas?

Definitely The Player of Games. Just as good if not better than Consider Phlebas, but a lot more accessible. I always try to persuade people to read that book first since I think it is the smoothest way to ease new readers into Bank's Culture universe.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Done. I'll get it ASAP. Thank you.

[GamePlayer]

Btw, did the help I sent you via PM work out? You never replied back.

[A Thing of Eternity]

It worked, but the video froze half way through. It wasn't a buffering issue, I let it buffer fully before playing, and it would not allow me to skip past the glitch. I'm going to try it again later, right now I'm tied up with some other stuff (top secret).

[GamePlayer]

You have the worst luck. Give some of the other ones a try and see if it works. If you need help, don't be shy

[A Thing of Eternity]

Alright, just got tPoG... $20 bucks for a paper back? Sheesh! I'm sure it'll be worth it.

[SandChigger]

Orbit paperback, right? CAN $18.50. I ordered mine from Amazon U.K. I thought it was weird that it says "Not for sale in the U.S."

[A Thing of Eternity]

That's the one, 18.50 plus taxes. Just seems expensive; I don't think it's even quite trade sized. Weird. I've never seen an overised paperback go for so much. Oh well.

Hey GamePlayer, I got that site working, I've just watched the first episod so far. Hopefully I'll be caught up soon.

[GamePlayer]

Sadly, all of Banks books are expensive over here in Canada. But I love them.

That's great news, AT Eternity. Glad I could help!

[A Thing of Eternity]

I know it's a bit of an unwieldly name... Thing or ATOE seem to work, but nicknames never go the way you want or plan them to. By the end I'll probably just be called Toe.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just watched episode two, holy shite did their CGI budget go through the roof! Even with the crappy compressed files the Centurions look breath taking, even compared to just last season. They finally got the "reflection" programming up and running, it's not just image mapping and shadow. The detail - stunning. I'm glad to see that they got some extra dollars to play with in this final season. I'm also glad that there is a real (planned) final season, some shows just go on and on and on.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Hey Gameplayer, I figure with all the rave reviews I should give Banks another try. What's the best book to go to after Phlebas?

Definitely The Player of Games. Just as good if not better than Consider Phlebas, but a lot more accessible. I always try to persuade people to read that book first since I think it is the smoothest way to ease new readers into Bank's Culture universe.

Finished. Wonderful, Banks is definitly back in my good books. I didn't find Phlebas un-accessible in comparision, just less focussed. I may go back and read it again, but I thought this book was far better from a plotting and charactor development standpoint. I will certainly go on to read all the other SF by this wonderful Mind. The biotech was fantastic but very believable - don't see that second part so often in SF (especially SF with force feilds and FTL and the likes) even the fringe physics were portrayed very well, focussing often on their limitations. Very fun read while managing to maintain philisophical value.

EDIT: Shit, didn't realize this was my third post in a row. Sorry folks.

[Robspierre]

Just FInished UNDER THE BLACK FLAG aboot pirates, good read it is.

Rob

[Omphalos]

Im about a hundred and twenty pages into a reread of The Mote in God's Eye.

[GamePlayer]

Finished. Wonderful, Banks is definitly back in my good books. I didn't find Phlebas un-accessible in comparision, just less focussed. I may go back and read it again, but I thought this book was far better from a plotting and charactor development standpoint. I will certainly go on to read all the other SF by this wonderful Mind. The biotech was fantastic but very believable - don't see that second part so often in SF (especially SF with force feilds and FTL and the likes) even the fringe physics were portrayed very well, focussing often on their limitations. Very fun read while managing to maintain philisophical value.

I found Consider Phlebas magnetic and very well written structurally, but it's not a happy ending. Not that I mind, but it can be a rough first novel for some readers. The Player of Games is more fulfilling and hence it usually entices new readers to read more. But both books are unabashedly Banks. Anyway, I'm glad you liked them. It's great stuff.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Finished. Wonderful, Banks is definitly back in my good books. I didn't find Phlebas un-accessible in comparision, just less focussed. I may go back and read it again, but I thought this book was far better from a plotting and charactor development standpoint. I will certainly go on to read all the other SF by this wonderful Mind. The biotech was fantastic but very believable - don't see that second part so often in SF (especially SF with force feilds and FTL and the likes) even the fringe physics were portrayed very well, focussing often on their limitations. Very fun read while managing to maintain philisophical value.

I found Consider Phlebas magnetic and very well written structurally, but it's not a happy ending. Not that I mind, but it can be a rough first novel for some readers. The Player of Games is more fulfilling and hence it usually entices new readers to read more. But both books are unabashedly Banks. Anyway, I'm glad you liked them. It's great stuff.

I don't think the ending threw me off because it was unhappy, I like those kind, just something about it made the whole story feel a bit pointless - maybe that was the idea though. I think I'll read it again after my next book (tolstoy) I might have read it back when I was in my "skip reading" phase, probably missed alot. It was quite a while ago, so I'm probably remembering the writing incorrectly, either way, Player was fantastic.

[SandChigger]

Im about a hundred and twenty pages into a reread of The Mote in God's Eye.

I first read that while in high school, reread it while home a few summers ago (in prep for reading The Gripping Hand when I got back here).

Moties will always have a special place in my heart, so I probably overlooked the places where it hadn't held up to the test of time. I did find myself becoming annoyed at the human "aristocrats". What I liked about both books was the "harder scifi" approach...harder than what we see in McDune, at least.


(My reaction to the end of Consider Phlebas: Oh. Shit. That was abrupt, wot?" )

[A Thing of Eternity]

(My reaction to the end of Consider Phlebas: Oh. Shit. That was abrupt, wot?" )

That's pretty much how I felt, I'll read it again and see if I'm better able to absorb it. I loved the Moties, the high ranking humans were asses though. Good books though, I also like it when I see some thought going into the science.

[Robspierre]

Just finished THE ROAD Cormac McCarthy. Excellent craftsmanship and I love how McCarthy can get you in to his characters without telling you every little fucking thing! This is going into my pile of books to read over and over again.


Rob

[A Thing of Eternity]

Reading A Clockwork Orange right now.

[Mandy]

Just finished THE ROAD Cormac McCarthy. Excellent craftsmanship and I love how McCarthy can get you in to his characters without telling you every little fucking thing! This is going into my pile of books to read over and over again.


Rob

I've been meaning to get that book.

[GamePlayer]

I have to read The Road before that new film adaptation comes out. Can't do that for Burgess novel, since I've seen the Kubrick film about a dozen times over

[A Thing of Eternity]

So far it's way better than the movie, but I did want to tear out my hair for the first chapter or two - the language takes a bit of getting used to... Now that I understand what the hell is happening it's a really interesting book. Even without the plot and characters this thing would be worth reading just for the language, and I have a feeling that it's the kind of book that gets better on the second read, that way you've learned the language and don't miss as much.

[Omphalos]

I loved that book.

[SandChigger]

The yizik in Orange give you a bit of a bowl in the ole galava, did it, Thang?

[A Thing of Eternity]

The yizik in Orange give you a bit of a bowl in the ole galava, did it, Thang?

Hardy har har... Seriously though - yes, it did. Now that I can understand what's happening it's a fantastic read, but at first I was a bit... taken by surprise.

[SandChigger]

Ah, drook, you no gonna lubich Solzik.


I finally picked up "Sidney's Vomit" again this morning and read about half of what was left; still have 30 pp to go. I've come this far, is the only reason I'll bother. (Having read the whole thing being the only justification I need to burn the fooker over on Amazon.)

Teg's Star Book (W. H. Allen & Co PLC) paperback copy I'm reading has

The fascinating first novel by the son of Frank Herbert, author of Dune

I still can't decide if with the use of "fascinating" there they were taking the piss or not.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Ah, drook, you no gonna lubich Solzik.


I finally picked up "Sidney's Vomit" again this morning and read about half of what was left; still have 30 pp to go. I've come this far, is the only reason I'll bother. (Having read the whole thing being the only justification I need to burn the fooker over on Amazon.)

Teg's Star Book (W. H. Allen & Co PLC) paperback copy I'm reading has

The fascinating first novel by the son of Frank Herbert, author of Dune

I still can't decide if with the use of "fascinating" there they were taking the piss or not.

lubich Solzik - lost me on that one.

Seriously, why are you reading that? I have to read the first SoSS book soon as part of a bet with Byron, but from what I've heard that'll be like shakespear compared to Brian's solo stuff.

[SandChigger]

Yeah, sorry, it's still a bit early for anyone to understand that. But soon.

Um...Teg and I had been talking about Brian's solo books, so we exchanged books we had for reading: he borried me Sidney's Comet and I loaned him Timeweb. He's already finished, but I'm dragging. I still haven't decided whether I'm going to actually read Timeweb all the way through when I get it back.

Anyway, the "why": if I've only read their "Dune" crap, I can only say they are shitty writers of books aobut Dune. After this I can say that they are shitty writers, period. (Or, at least, everything I have read by them has been bad.)

The first Saga book is shit. I've got a paperback copy of it now that I've been skimming instead of not reading the end of Brian's Comet and it's really bad. It's no Shakespeare compared to Brian. (If Brian's writing is the monkeys trying to hammer out Shakespeare, then Kevin's is REALLY HEARTFUL PROSE written by a pretentious highschool scribbler.)

And the science is going to give you shits, trust me. (I'm currently looking at whether it's really possible to have a planet where it is never night. Doesn't look promising.)

[Phaedrus]

(I'm currently looking at whether it's really possible to have a planet where it is never night. Doesn't look promising.)

Isn't that a ripoff of one of Douglas Adams's planets...?

[Omphalos]

...Sidney's Vomit...

[Omphalos]

And the science is going to give you shits, trust me. (I'm currently looking at whether it's really possible to have a planet where it is never night. Doesn't look promising.)

Probably not without some tremendous tidal forces. Though is there a class of star that puts out enough photon energy that it would be bright enough for a human at a distance where gravity would not tear the fucker apart? Or if there were less shit in the "vacuum" between a planet and its two stars? Hmmmmm.

[SandChigger]

Here's the only reasonable disposition of the systems that I've been able to come up with so far:



The "Seven Suns" are (1) the Ildiran sun ("a warm orange K1 star"), (2)(3) the "close binary pair" Qronha A and B ("a red giant and a smaller yellow companion"), (4)(5)(6) the "amazing trinary of Durris" A, B, and C ("a closely tied white star and yellow star with a red dwarf orbiting the common center of mass"), and (7) "the blue supergiant Daym". (As in "Daym...dat's a BEEG STAR, Billy Bob!" maybe?)

Unless Ildira and its sun are in the middle and the other three stars/multiples arranged around them in the triangular pattern shown, I don't see how the planet can have light striking it at all times. (They'll also have to be in basically the same plane as Ildira's orbit, otherwise they'll shine more on one hemisphere or the other and could result in dark quadrants on the planet's surface. I've already seen this in one of my Celestia simulations. It's kewl...but no banana. )

As I've tried to show in the upper righthand corner, it becomes a problem of determining what part of the planet's surface is covered by light from each star/group at every point along its orbit. (I've just shown "light triangles" for the Ildiran sun and Daym.)

The stars in the two multiples will move about their own orbits, resulting in variable brightness. The distance from Ildria to each is very important: too far and they'll just appear as bright stars and not provide enough "daylight"; too close and their gravitational fields will disrupt the orbit of the planet around its sun.

The super blue giant is also a danger because it will have a short lifetime and go supernova after only a few hundred million years.

The problem with trying to model this in Celestia is it can only handle shadow calculations for one or two stars (I think). Several times I've set down on the surface of the planet and sped up the clock and watched the sky go from daytime blue to black and there still be a sun or two above the horizon. Sigh.

(And why do I have the nagging suspicion that I have already put more time and thought into this than the author himself. )

[Omphalos]

So this whole seven suns thingie takes place in one system? boring.

[Freakzilla]

OMG, he's trying to one-up Asimov!

I knew the guy was a hack and an idea thief but the extent amazes me.

"Nightfall" is a story about a planet that does not experience nightfall except once in every 2,049 years. With six suns, Lagash otherwise exists in perpetual sunlight. In the course of describing the last four hours before darkness covers all, Asimov explains how a rare eclipse is able to blot out all the light and why the event always results in universal chaos. This feat he achieves by placing the story in the Observatory of the scientists who are able to predict the coming phenomenon. Aton 77, the aged director of Saro University and chief astronomer, is preparing to try to record the eclipse and whatever follows so that there will be scientific evidence to explain what has happened.

On a planet where darkness is unknown, the expectation is that everyone will go insane from fear.....

http://www.bookrags.com/studyguide-nightfall/sum.html

I guess his story is different because it's got seven suns instead of six.

I'm reminded of This is Spinal Tap: Our amps go to eleven!

[A Thing of Eternity]

OMG, he's trying to one-up Asimov!

I knew the guy was a hack and an idea thief but the extent amazes me.

"Nightfall" is a story about a planet that does not experience nightfall except once in every 2,049 years. With six suns, Lagash otherwise exists in perpetual sunlight. In the course of describing the last four hours before darkness covers all, Asimov explains how a rare eclipse is able to blot out all the light and why the event always results in universal chaos. This feat he achieves by placing the story in the Observatory of the scientists who are able to predict the coming phenomenon. Aton 77, the aged director of Saro University and chief astronomer, is preparing to try to record the eclipse and whatever follows so that there will be scientific evidence to explain what has happened.

On a planet where darkness is unknown, the expectation is that everyone will go insane from fear.....

http://www.bookrags.com/studyguide-nightfall/sum.html

I guess his story is different because it's got seven suns instead of six.

I'm reminded of This is Spinal Tap: Our amps go to eleven!

Fuck. I knew it'd heard the idea before. Thank's for reminding me where he stole it from. I should probably read that book first so it doesn't get tainted by KJA.

[Freakzilla]

It's not a bad read. I read it a long time ago but I thought the concept was kind of cool.

One of the minor points I liked was that the people on this planet don't see the stars due to the constant daylight so they haven't gotten into space.

[Robspierre]

I have the expanded version and its quite good, not a bad tale at all.

Rob

[Freakzilla]

I have the expanded version and its quite good, not a bad tale at all.

Rob

What's expanded about it?

[SandChigger]

So this whole seven suns thingie takes place in one system? boring.

Huh?

No, that's just the Ildirans' home system. Because they never experience night, they're afraid of the dark. They're also overly gregarious and lived packed together and have a mild telepathic link focused through their leader called "thism". (I don't know why telepathy is so big for Kevin. The sentient trees of the Green Priests [who really are green because they have chlorophyl under their skin. ] are also telepathic and priest+tree units are essentially used as the telecommunications system across the "Sprial Arm". Oh...oh...I think my brain just farted. )

Anyway, the Ildirans are an older empire and humans are the brash newcomers. Blah blah blah. For some reason Earth has a king and ... oh, fook it.

Have fun reading it, Thang. (Sorry for the spoilers!)

[A Thing of Eternity]

So this whole seven suns thingie takes place in one system? boring.

Huh?

No, that's just the Ildirans' home system. Because they never experience night, they're afraid of the dark. They're also overly gregarious and lived packed together and have a mild telepathic link focused through their leader called "thism". (I don't know why telepathy is so big for Kevin. The sentient trees of the Green Priests [who really are green because they have chlorophyl under their skin. ] are also telepathic and priest+tree units are essentially used as the telecommunications system across the "Sprial Arm". Oh...oh...I think my brain just farted. )

Anyway, the Ildirans are an older empire and humans are the brash newcomers. Blah blah blah. For some reason Earth has a king and ... oh, fook it.

Have fun reading it, Thang. (Sorry for the spoilers!)

Have fun reading what - Hyperion? Oh! You're talking about the SoSS book... should be a good laugh.

[SandChigger]

As I've been skimming through, it's occurred to me several times that if you were a teenager who hasn't read a lot (period...or of scifi...or who has read more fantasy?) or someone who didn't pay a lot of attention in your science classes, it might not be that bad.

I guess we could be generous and say something like, well, people reading Kevin's books is better than them not reading anyting at all, right?

...

...

Nah, moldering in the grave would be preferable to reading Kevin.

[orald]

Nah, moldering in the grave would be preferable to reading Kevin.

Or him moldering in the grave be preferable to him writing(dick-tating?) anything.

Him who must not be named.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Clockwork orange done. It was great, but I have a problem with novels that use interesting new words - they get stuck in my head, quite badly. After Whipping Star I just walked around repeating taprisiot in my head over and over for days. Terribly annoying... you can imagine what my mind is like after C.Orange. Oh well, it'll wear off.



On to Rama II

[Freakzilla]

Clockwork orange done. It was great, but I have a problem with novels that use interesting new words - they get stuck in my head, quite badly. After Whipping Star I just walked around repeating taprisiot in my head over and over for days. Terribly annoying... you can imagine what my mind is like after C.Orange. Oh well, it'll wear off.



On to Rama II

I loved the language in ACO.

[A Thing of Eternity]

It's great but it wont get out of my head!

[Robspierre]

I have the expanded version and its quite good, not a bad tale at all.

Rob

What's expanded about it?

Robert Silverburg expanded it into a full length novel, the first 2/3's are quite good, the after effects not so much but still enjoyable.

Rob

[SandChigger]

It's great but it wont get out of my head!

Hee hee hee.

(With no appy-polly-logies! )

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just finished Rama II. What stood was out how well Clarke writes about religion and religious characters. Most athiest authors are condescending on one level or another towards religion, wheras Clarke is always extremely respectful, and his religious characters are often his best. Good book, now I'm off to find Garden of Rama...

[Robspierre]

Reading EYE by Frank Herbert. Love the illustrations.

Rob

[SandChigger]

Started Iain M. Banks' Use of Weapons last night.

(I forgot to mention here that I finished Brian's Vomit and posted a brief pan over on the Amazon page for the recently reissued edition. Got to wondering the other day if the text has been "corrected" in any way. The comedic treatment(???) of people with physical disabilities [called "cappies", from "handicapped"?] probably goes over worse now than it did back in '83. Why they would re-release such a piece of shit is beyond me. Taken together with Timeweb, I'm now convinced that Brian is an idiot and the rest of the family isn't much better for letting him publish his verbal droolings. Whatever.)

[tanzeelat]

Just finished Rama II. What stood was out how well Clarke writes about religion and religious characters. Most athiest authors are condescending on one level or another towards religion, wheras Clarke is always extremely respectful, and his religious characters are often his best. Good book, now I'm off to find Garden of Rama...

How much of the book was by Clarke though? The sequels to Rendezvous with Rama were all "co-written" by Gentry Lee (not the bloke from Rush).

And I have to ask, why all this recent contempt for "atheism"? Clarke said he doesn't believe in God. Why should that make him anti-religion? His views on - and treatment of - the subject should be quite clear from his fiction - 'The Nine Billion Names of God', 'The Star', Childhood's End, for example... What next? "For a homosexual author, he treats his heterosexual characters with respect"?

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just finished Rama II. What stood was out how well Clarke writes about religion and religious characters. Most athiest authors are condescending on one level or another towards religion, wheras Clarke is always extremely respectful, and his religious characters are often his best. Good book, now I'm off to find Garden of Rama...

How much of the book was by Clarke though? The sequels to Rendezvous with Rama were all "co-written" by Gentry Lee (not the bloke from Rush).

And I have to ask, why all this recent contempt for "atheism"? Clarke said he doesn't believe in God. Why should that make him anti-religion? His views on - and treatment of - the subject should be quite clear from his fiction - 'The Nine Billion Names of God', 'The Star', Childhood's End, for example... What next? "For a homosexual author, he treats his heterosexual characters with respect"?

I'm pretty sure Clarke wrote the bulk of it, it reads like his writing which is fairly distinct.

You'll get little contempt for Athiesm from me, I'm a through and through Athiest myself and I don't mind books which slag religion. I was just stuck by how, especially in this novel, Clarke manages to create devoutly religious characters who are sane and emotionally balanced, usually the more admirable of his characters. Most of the other Athiest authors I've read tend towards the opposite, even when they are honestly trying to write a "good" religious character.

Why should being an Athiest make him anti-religion? Pretty simple: most Athiests never manage to shake the thought that, on some level, everyone else is insane or mentally handicapped. Also, I've never met an Athiest who thought that organized religion was a positive force in human society/psychology. I've read the stories you mentioned about (excluding Childhood's End) and I agree that he carries the same respectful tone throughout those, I certainly wasn't saying that this was something I thought was a new position for Sir Arthur C Clarke. I was just remarking on the rarity of such true respect coming from an Athiest, it's a nice change from the usual.

[tanzeelat]

I was reading Clarke's page on Wikipedia, and there's a section on his views on religion... and it struck me that ten years ago no one would have cared if an author had said he didn't believe in God. Then, any discussion on Clarke's views on religion would have been solely on his treatment of it in his fiction.

[GamePlayer]

Finished reading a non-science fiction book called The Wasp Factory by Iain M. Banks. Very creepy book.

[orald]

Soon finishing a compilation of PKD short stories called(after one of them, and a very good one too) Second Variety.
I must say I'm really enjoying these(of course, with the right mindset you can see the plot twists from miles away, but still there're some nice surprises and even when not they'r still fun), much more than other, full length PKD books I've read in the past. I always thought he was a bit...meh.
IDK.

[Omphalos]

Glad to hear that you are enjoying his short stories, orald. Maybe the novels will strike you better once you have an appreciation for his short fiction.

[inhuien]

Finished reading a non-science fiction book called The Wasp Factory by Iain M. Banks. Very creepy book.

That was his first book to be published and as you don't say it's dog burningly messed up. Is it published with his middle initial in Canada, just wondering as he drops it for his non sci-fi work in the UK. God save the Queen, naaa Fuck 'er.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Finished reading a non-science fiction book called The Wasp Factory by Iain M. Banks. Very creepy book.

That was his first book to be published and as you don't say it's dog burningly messed up. Is it published with his middle initial in Canada, just wondering as he drops it for his non sci-fi work in the UK. God save the Queen, naaa Fuck 'er.

He drops the M in Canada too.

[Omphalos]

Banks typically uses the middle initial "M." in US non SF books.

[GamePlayer]

All of Iain's books I've seen here are either Iain M. Banks for his Culture novels and Iain Banks for his non-science fiction work.

The Wasp Factory is just disturbing. I'm still grappling with it. I thought I had read it years ago, but I think I confused it with another book. The content within The Wasp Factory is not something I'd ever forget if I had previously read it. It's amazing too because even though it's his first book, you can just tell it's Banks. I was amazed how much of his style and his subject matter was in this book. There are seeds and buds within The Wasp Factory that will later become fully fleshed out ideas in the Culture novels.

Once I got to the end of The Wasp Factory, I had an incredible urge to re-read the book. The reveal is making me re-think the whole narrative and I wonder now how the book would feel once one knows the ending.

EDIT Whoops, got the initial reversed

[SandChigger]

I woke up about 3:30 this morning and then couldn't get back to sleep, and ended up finishing the stories I hadn't read yet in Banks' collection The State of the Art. (Use of Weapons was downstairs here and I couldn't be bothered.)

Discovered that there is actually a definite third Culture story ("Descendant") and a fourth that leans that way ("Cleaning Up")...at least it mentions something that appears in Consider Phlebas. ("A Gift from the Culture" and "The State of the Art" are the two stories I had read; I think I've mentioned that here.) If you get a chance, "Odd Attachment" is a messy but fun little thing.

I have the Orbit UK paperbacks with the cover pix of all his books on the inside of their covers. The Culture and other scifi books are inside the front with his name as "Iain M. Banks". The inside of the back cover shows the other books (The Wasp Factory, Walking on Glass, Espedair Street, etc.) with his name as "Iain Banks". Please don't tell me that the use of the middle initial to indicate scifi/non-scifi differs from country to country or publisher to publisher.

(Oh yeah: I was really disappointed the other day when I realized that Orbit is the same company that publishes the paperbacks of the Hack's Saga of Seven Suns. That demotes them to potential slut status.)

(Speaking of wannabe-sluts [but no one will fuck her. Would you? Not me, not even with your dick], has "Broadzilla" reared her ugly head again yet? )

[GamePlayer]

No, they are not different names from the UK to overseas. I wrote my post incorrectly the first time. *slap myself* The books are staring me right in the face on my bookshelf too. I hate stupid errors like that. Non-science fiction is Iain Banks, Culture novels and other sci-fi is as Iain M Banks.

[SandChigger]

Whew...was a bit worried.

(Did you leave a mark? )

[GamePlayer]

I hope I left something as a reminder. I just hate those moments when something is so simple, but I get it wrong. It really angers me

[Ragabash]

My girl found me a copy of Against a Dark Background on paperback swap. I can't wait to reread it

Also, they're publishing Use of Weapons (the only Culture novel I haven't read yet) in the new line next month.

[Omphalos]

My girl found me a copy of Against a Dark Background on paperback swap. I can't wait to reread it

Also, they're publishing Use of Weapons (the only Culture novel I haven't read yet) in the new line next month.

Have you read Matter yet, bro?

[SandChigger]

Well, if he's not going to answer, I will: no, not yet, though it's waiting for me on the shelf.

Finished Use of Weapons this morning. Liked, yes I did. Although I noticed a number of mistakes (less than 10, altogether), which I hadn't done in the other books thus far.

Didn't see the surprise coming until the ship told the drone and the sister said no, but I put it together before it was spelled out.

I haven't checked the reviews over on Amazon yet, but I imagine there will be the usual whiners about the shifts around in time. I rather enjoyed the way Banks put it all together.

Will start Excession tonight!

(Inversions, Look to Windward, and then Matter. Yum!)

[GamePlayer]

Use of Weapons had a fantastic structure and a great ending. But it is old now and a bunch of books and movies have come out since then featuring a similar twist, so it's been somewhat diluted by pop culture. Still, it can be appreciated for the narrative and the characterizations are very good. Great read.

[Omphalos]

Just started Dangerous Visions last night, and read a bunch of City of Illusions, by Ursula K. Le Guin while at jury duty yesterday.

[inhuien]

Will start Excession tonight!

You'll love it I'm sure. It may not have all the levels to it that some of the other Culture novels do but it has a stack of Mind/Ship talk to it and is in general a rollercoster.......erm I never thought I'd say this but I've just started a Thriller @me

[SandChigger]

I decided very quickly that the drone in the ship under attack could have whipped the entirety of the Synchronized Worlds single-handed.

And I've settled on another adjective for the depiction of the "Thinking Machines" (snort) in Pinky and The Brian's books:

INFANTILE. 8)

[Omphalos]

Thinkun' machines indeed. Kind of like Jethro's "see-ment pond."

[SandChigger]

Dammit, Jed! Move away from there!

[Omphalos]

Dammit, Jed! Move away from there!

[Ragabash]

I decided very quickly that the drone in the ship under attack could have whipped the entirety of the Synchronized Worlds single-handed.

And I've settled on another adjective for the depiction of the "Thinking Machines" (snort) in Pinky and The Brian's books:

INFANTILE. 8)

The best part about that book is the list of ship names in the Culture. Buahaha.

[GamePlayer]

LOL If there's one part of the Banks books that comes across as unabashedly Scottish, it's the names for the ships

[SandChigger]

Loving Excession, as expected.

This morning read the bit where the Sleeper not only awakens but goes on the lam.

(Realized with a bit of shock that I'm in the midst of a five-day weekend here. I had the books delivered to the office—lots of shelf space—and have been bringing them home to read. I may finish this one and not have the next to read until ... Wednesday. Guess I'll work more on the Galach shtuff! )

[SandChigger]

Forgot to mention that I finished Excession this morning.

Ending was a bit anticlimactic, but I still liked it.

Will be grabbing Look to Windward from the office tomorrow.

[GamePlayer]

I think Excession is definitely the hardest sci-fi of the series or perhaps it's more accurate to say it's written like hard sci-fi. Unless you really understand the concepts of Bank's universe, Excession can come across as really obtuse. I liked it because I'm a tech/construct junkie and have a little of the anthropologist mentality in me, but I know Excession was hit and miss with some of my fellow sci-fi fans.

[Omphalos]

Im knee deep in the reference book Anatomy of Wonder. I really cannot put that thing down. Im also in the middle of Alexi Panshin's The World Beyond the Hill, a monograph on SF that examines The Golden Age contribution, but I just started Jack Vance's The Languages of Pao as well.

[SandChigger]

I think Excession is definitely the hardest sci-fi of the series or perhaps it's more accurate to say it's written like hard sci-fi. Unless you really understand the concepts of Bank's universe, Excession can come across as really obtuse. I liked it because I'm a tech/construct junkie and have a little of the anthropologist mentality in me, but I know Excession was hit and miss with some of my fellow sci-fi fans.

Obtuse, huh. Interesting. I still haven't looked at any reviews of it; may do so later this afternoon.

[Omphalos]

I think Excession is definitely the hardest sci-fi of the series or perhaps it's more accurate to say it's written like hard sci-fi. Unless you really understand the concepts of Bank's universe, Excession can come across as really obtuse. I liked it because I'm a tech/construct junkie and have a little of the anthropologist mentality in me, but I know Excession was hit and miss with some of my fellow sci-fi fans.

Obtuse, huh. Interesting. I still haven't looked at any reviews of it; may do so later this afternoon.

Why don't you write one and post it here? That way I could say, "about fuckin' time, Bug!"

[SandChigger]

The best part about that book is the list of ship names in the Culture. Buahaha.

After finishing Look to Windward last night, I wonder if it wasn't the book you were thinking of in this comment, Ragabash, instead of Excession. There were a lot of ships named in Excession, of course, but in the later book there's a conversation conducted almost entirely by just quoting ship names.

Anyway...was quite good.

I suppose some might complain that the aliens were too human...but I liked the way how you were never quite sure immediately when a new character was being introduced whether they were human or not. Pleasant little surprises.

(Contrast that with Kevin's abominable practice in Seven Suns of labelling "chapters" with the main character's name and having naming conventions [among the ILdirans, at least] that make it clear what kind of alien they are. )

Interesting little shifts in perspective, too.

Anyway, the only unfortunate thing is...I didn't expect to finish is so quickly and so didn't bring Matter home with me the other nigh.

Poop.

Oops. Looks like I forgot that Inversions is also a Culture novel. (It isn't so labelled on the cover. Grrrr.) Will have to read that before Matter.

But, on the bright side...ONE MORE CULTURE NOVEL TO READ!!!

[GamePlayer]

"You have learned much, young one"

Yeah I know, it doesn't quite work

[SandChigger]

Well...definitely not the last two words, eh?

[Omphalos]

Quite work? I dont get it.

[SandChigger]

(Neither did I. I'm just humoring him. You know how sensitive they are up North. Especially this one. )

[Robspierre]

Finished Little Brother from Cory Doctorow, overall well done lots of cool nifty real tech stuff, the last bit gets just a tad preachy and seems a bit to pat, BUT, I can see myself using this book in the classroom, along with 1984 and V For Vendetta.

Currently reading HaltinG StatE by Charles Stross, like the Scottishness, a bit meh on the gaming bits so far, 80 pages in and it's starting to get interesting with the outside world bits.

Rob

[Omphalos]

You should look at Doctorow's website. If you found stuff that you would use in the class room there, you will find much, much more there. Doctorow has a huge online presence, and is outspoken on a several issues, including the free use of copyrighted material with a special set of rules to help with the financial cost to the authors.

[tanzeelat]

You should look at Doctorow's website. If you found stuff that you would use in the class room there, you will find much, much more there. Doctorow has a huge online presence, and is outspoken on a several issues, including the free use of copyrighted material with a special set of rules to help with the financial cost to the authors.

Unless that author happens to be Ursula K Le Guin...

[GamePlayer]

Well...definitely not the last two words, eh?

You said it, not me

Grrrr, sensitive! How dare you! It's obvious you and your family, friends, pets and dead relatives are out to get me! Well I'm onto you! Oh yes, you and all your other bitches (can't recall just now what it was she called us other than Mandy). I'll trol...er, surf the net looking for other forums where I can recruit unwitting Dune fans to my cause! Then I shall strike back at your blogs with ever more fearsome posts of rampant paranoia! Beware my h@X0r sk1lls for they are leet! No message board color scheme will remain safe from the Red Deer scourge!

Quite work? I dont get it.

I tried to think of an appropriate movie quote, but this one only partially fit. It was late, I was tired, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it

[SandChigger]

Strike my blog, will you?!



That'd be a first. I don't think you've ever commented there, have you? Love to have you drop by!

[Star Dust]

My "to read" list:

http://www.goodreads.com/review/list/650582

[GamePlayer]

Strike my blog, will you?!



That'd be a first. I don't think you've ever commented there, have you? Love to have you drop by!

No, I haven't. I suppose I felt your blog was guilty by association with the Hyppo epidemic, so I never chose to visit because, well, I get enough of that drama over here and on Jacurutu. Perhaps I should visit now, if it's safe to do so?

[Robspierre]

You should look at Doctorow's website. If you found stuff that you would use in the class room there, you will find much, much more there. Doctorow has a huge online presence, and is outspoken on a several issues, including the free use of copyrighted material with a special set of rules to help with the financial cost to the authors.

I have it bookmarked along with BoingBoing which is a great resource as well.

Rob

[SandChigger]

Perhaps I should visit now, if it's safe to do so?

Might want to wait a bit, unless you want to see a pic of Kevin starring out at you from between two bumcheeks.

[Omphalos]

Perhaps I should visit now, if it's safe to do so?

Might want to wait a bit, unless you want to see a pic of Kevin starring out at you from between two bumcheeks.

Note: "Staring" = "Dangling."

[SandChigger]

Like an overripe dingleberry?

NICE!

Since I'm out of Banks for the moment, have been making do the best I can....

Remembered I hadn't yet finished all the stories in Dan Simmons' collection Prayers to Broken Stones, so I polished off two or three more and then read another twenty pages or so of a story called Tachikoma no Koi/First Love, Last Love by Jun'ichi Fujisaku, set, obviously, in the Ghost In The Shell/Stand Alone Complex universe.

I picked up four small books of this sort a while back, three by Fujisaku—who was a staff writer on the animé productions—and one by a Masaki SomethingOrOther, the last set in the Innocence alternate GitS-iverse. Kinda interesting. I started with the tachikoma short story 'cause, well, I'm a big tachikoma fan.

[Robspierre]

I loved the tachikoma's!

Rob

[A Thing of Eternity]

Emissaries from the Dead by Adam-Troy Castro. This is his first original novel, he's done a bunch of award winning shorts (that I've never read) and a bunch of stuff like spiderman and other assorted BS that reminds me abit too much of the Hack.

So far, it's okay... except the character building which is extremely sub-par (not KJA sub-par, but shite non the less). Main character is cheesy to the point of being hard to read, and there have been so many lame SF cliches I've lost count. I'll post if I find any sufficiently redeeming qualities, so far, I wouldn't recommend it, or anything by this guy. Waste of $

[SandChigger]

The Hack. I like that.

Back in the office today. (Haven't heard anything different this morning yet, so Teg should be on his way up for...lunch with obscene amounts of coffee and maybe a...PODCAST!) Have already set Inversions and Matter aside to take home tonight.


EDIT: Seems I was having a not-quite-senior-yet senior moment earlier. Teg will be coming up next week for the podcast.

[Omphalos]

[SandChigger]

Laugh now, Kimowasabi.

Bleh. Liver-horseradish? Where'd I come up with that?!

Or Kirin with this:

"Kirin, from the Kitchen of the World: Mint Julep Soda. Inspiration from Cuba. Grapefruit."

And that's exactly what it tastes like: someone chewed up some peppermint and then spit it out in a glass of grapefruit juice. Blick.

Stopped by the student co-op shop on the way back from lunch to grab something liquid for the rest of the afton. Lunch co-conspirator pointed out two new additions to the selection (the other was coconut-flavored milk tea), so silly "I'll try anything once!" me bought them.

Here's hoping the tea isn't half bad.

[SandChigger]

(Ugh. The coconut was even worse than the mint julep. Ended up not even being able to drink it. Was doing some house-cleaning last weekend and came across an old box of Indian incense cones. Lit one up while I was sorting through some old papers and I swear the tea tasted like that incense smelled. Made me kinda sick so I threw it out. )

Reading Inversions now. Interesting change of pace from the other Culture novels. (I can see why it's not explicitly labelled as one. But the little hints are there. )

[GamePlayer]

Wow, you've now surpassed me. I've not read Inversions as yet. Good on my chigga

[SandChigger]

Did you ever get a copy of Matter yet?

[GamePlayer]

No. Too many other things in the way. It's a lousy time right now

[SandChigger]

Pooh. I'll be sure to spoiler it for you!

(Kidding!)

Inversions is getting fun(ner). Looks like there are two Culture characters, as I suspected. "Prime Directive" quandary issues.

[Mandy]

I just started reading The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot Diaz. It is fucking awesome already. I love the way it's written. Even the footnotes are good.

[SandChigger]

Oscar Wao? You mean the Irish guy they locked up in Reading Gao?

[Mandy]

I have no idea

You'd love the book, my Chigga. It's hilarious, it has Spanglish, and Oscar reads Dune.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I have nothing to read now. May read 10000 leagues. May not. See how I feel after my morning coffee.

[SandChigger]

I'm getting a timestamp says you posted that seven hours ago. What'd you go with?


(Thanks for the info, Mandy. Will put it on one of my lists.... )

[A Thing of Eternity]

I'm getting a timestamp says you posted that seven hours ago. What'd you go with?


(Thanks for the info, Mandy. Will put it on one of my lists.... )

Decided to read 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea... I make that exact same mistake almost every time I name that book.

[Mandy]

Oscar Wao? You mean the Irish guy they locked up in Reading Gao?

lol... I just found out that is exactly why they started calling Oscar, Oscar Wao.. cause he looks like Oscar Wilde.

I do not want to give away any of the surprises of the book, I will just say that the similarities to some of the people we talk to online are fucking shocking. It's like the author knew all of us, and put things in the book that we would totally get. Even Oscar's mom's name will make you laugh. As an added bonus, you get a little history lesson of the Caribbean.

[Star Dust]

Just added Gibson's Neuromancer and LeGuin's The Left Hand of Drakness to the stack.

[SandChigger]

Finished Inversions (nice!), have started Matter. Fun. (Some new weird aliens to play with, the usual close-to-human crowd.)

The writing doesn't have to be repetitive and simplified just because the story is action-packed. Banks isn't the best writer in the world, but he sure as hell blows you-know-who out of the water. It's amazing people even read the latter with people like Banks around. Ah, well, to each his own.

[SandChigger]

Finished Matter this morning.

Wow. Yes, enjoyed.

Quandary: what to start on next. I've finished all the Culture novels now. I have his other "Iain M. Banks" scifi works, but maybe it's time for a weE change.

I'm thinking Dune, by Frank Herbert. Just to have everything fresh, for when PuD, I mean, PoD comes out in a couple of weeks.

[Omphalos]

I just started Galapagos by Kurt Vonnegut. Its OK.

[GamePlayer]

Finished Matter this morning.

Wow. Yes, enjoyed.

Quandary: what to start on next. I've finished all the Culture novels now. I have his other "Iain M. Banks" scifi works, but maybe it's time for a weE change.

I'm thinking Dune, by Frank Herbert. Just to have everything fresh, for when PuD, I mean, PoD comes out in a couple of weeks.

You've done a marathon on Banks. I'd definitely say try some other stuff before going back to him. There can be too much of a good thing.

When you do go back to Banks, I'd definitely recommend The Wasp Factory, though be in store for something truly fucked up

[inhuien]

Finished Matter this morning.

Wow. Yes, enjoyed.

Quandary: what to start on next. I've finished all the Culture novels now. I have his other "Iain M. Banks" scifi works, but maybe it's time for a weE change.

I'm thinking Dune, by Frank Herbert. Just to have everything fresh, for when PuD, I mean, PoD comes out in a couple of weeks.

Don't overlook Alistair Reynolds Revelation Space saga. It's hard, gritty, quite out there and a well written good read.

[SandChigger]

I read and really liked the first of those, but the ending kinda pissed me off for some reason, so I didn't go after the other books at that time. Something I've been meaning to get back to.

Reynolds has a new book out now or soon, right?

[inhuien]

I know what you mean about the ending . You have the word faff, well it did it. Read the second and third books as well and they seemed to be up and down from what I recall but enjoyable in the whole.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I'm well into Richard Morgan's Altered Carbon, I like this guy more and more with each book I read - really noir gritty stuff with a fairly interesting take on identity.

I've been attempting to go on a Banks bender myself, but I can't find Use of Weapons anywhere, it's the one to read after tPoG right?

[inhuien]

Is Altered Carbon a stand alone novel? Me local amazon have for 33p +p&p

[SandChigger]

(Thang, I'd have to go back through the thread to check! I think I read the short stories before UoW....)

[A Thing of Eternity]

Is Altered Carbon a stand alone novel? Me local amazon have for 33p +p&p

No, it's his first novel but there are two sequels, Broken Angels and Woken Furies which revolve around the same main character, Takeshi Kovachs. I read the second one first and still have to finish AC before I get to the last one. They're pretty much mystery novels though, so there's not a lot of plot from book to book, reading the second one first didn't really take anything away from either book.

Also, I don't know what this means: 33p +p&p

(Thang, I'd have to go back through the thread to check! I think I read the short stories before UoW....)

I'm sure I'll figure it out. Now I just have to find the damn book.

[SandChigger]

You're kidding, right?

33 pence plus (and I'm guessing on half of this next) packing & postage.

Whaddaya know, being an Anglophile actually does come in handy sometimes.

[Omphalos]

I always buy the 1 cent books of Amazon. You only have to pay $3.50 shipping.

[inhuien]

You're kidding, right?

33 pence plus (and I'm guessing on half of this next) packing & postage.

Whaddaya know, being an Anglophile actually does come in handy sometimes.

Correct SC, See that Mekon brain has it's uses

edit to add: Sorry for the oversight AToE, thank you for the info.

[A Thing of Eternity]

You're kidding, right?

33 pence plus (and I'm guessing on half of this next) packing & postage.

Whaddaya know, being an Anglophile actually does come in handy sometimes.

Hardy har har. I had a hunch that was what the 33P meant, but I had no idea about the p&p. We don't use the term postage and handling that I've ever heard, it's always shipping and handling... guess I didn't fill that in.

[SandChigger]

And thus you fail to grab the pebble from my hand, Grasshop...er, Sandwormy-thang. You must cultivate the flexibility of Word Mind that allows you to absorb without thinking the linguistic peculiarities of our Tongue Brothers and Sisters across the Big Pond....



What the hell thread was this again? Oh, yeah.

I skimmed through a Russian grammar again last night. Can't decide whether to read Dune or Eye, which I haven't read and got a used copy of a while back. Hmmm....

[inhuien]

Be like water my friend...


r.i.p. bruce... the good die young and the bad hang around stinking the place up.

[GamePlayer]

Ever watch Cowboy Bebop? The main character, a martial artist himself, makes reference to Lee's interview about Jeet Kune Do, using a line similar to what you posted. It's such a fanboy moment

[inhuien]

I have the movie, the character (Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV) without a spine is so cool, is the quote from that?

[GamePlayer]

Nope. It's from the series, episode #8 Waltz For Venus. Spike is seen fighting by this crazy guy named Rocco, who then wants to learn how to fight like Spike. So Spike reluctantly teaches him a few fighting tips and some philosophy, with a Bruce Lee quote about the nature of being fluid like water. I recognized the reference instantly

That's a great picture of Ed. She's such a delightfully fucked up character
This is one of my favorite pictures:

[Omphalos]

Nice cartoon ass.

[Freakzilla]

Nice cartoon ass.

I'll say!

[Robspierre]

I demand some Faye Valentine goodness for this thread!


Rob

[inhuien]

I demand some Faye Valentine goodness for this thread!


Rob

Here you go, take this as a big I'm sorry for being so cheeky in that other thread



there were a lot more, but I didn't want to get banned for posting p0rn(ish) stuff.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just starting The Garden of Rama.

[Freakzilla]

I demand some Faye Valentine goodness for this thread!


Rob

Here you go, take this as a big I'm sorry for being so cheeky in that other thread



there were a lot more, but I didn't want to get banned for posting p0rn(ish) stuff.

I see a camel toe!

[inhuien]

Did you really mean to type the toungey smiley there :_))

That's a great picture of Ed. She's such a delightfully fucked up character

Completely, I'm mad for the Keyop (BOTP) like characters.

[Freakzilla]

Did you really mean to type the toungey smiley there :_))

Of course!

[Freakzilla]

Hey, that's the kid fro G-Force! I used to love that cartoon as a kid.

[Omphalos]

Hey, that's the kid fro G-Force! I used to love that cartoon as a kid.

Me too. He had some speech impediment where he quacked like a duck, right?

[Robspierre]

Interpersonal Communication: Fourth Edition
The English Teacher' Companion: Third Edition-Jim Burke
Mythology-Edith Hamilton
D'aulaires' Book of Greek Myths


My reading for this semester

Rob

[Phaedrus]

Just finished Watchmen.

It was pretty incredible.

[Omphalos]

I really cant wait for that movie.

I finished Rogue Moon by Algis Budrys last night. Now I think its off to Stanislaw Lem's The Futurolgoical Congress.

[GamePlayer]

Phaedrus
Well done. I suspect you can now see why Watchmen was turned into a film; the panels and the artwork is very cinematic.

Omphalos
We may have to, given the legal crap

[Seraphan]

I need some advice, i never read a philip k dick novel and i'm very interested? Can someone tell with wich one to start?

[Omphalos]

I need some advice, i never read a philip k dick novel and i'm very interested? Can someone tell with wich one to start?

Martian Time Slip is a good starter. So is Do Androids Dream of Electronic Sheep? I personally love The Man in the High Castle, but get ready for a thinker, a talker and in some parts a snoozer. There are tons of short stories out too, and those may be good places to start.

[Seraphan]

I need some advice, i never read a philip k dick novel and i'm very interested? Can someone tell with wich one to start?

Martian Time Slip is a good starter. So is Do Androids Dream of Electronic Sheep? I personally love The Man in the High Castle, but get ready for a thinker, a talker and in some parts a snoozer. There are tons of short stories out too, and those may be good places to start.

Thanks i'll go dig them out

[Omphalos]

I liked Radio Free Albemuth too, and all save for the LSD scene, a book called The Unteleported Man (now retitled Lies, Inc., I think). Once you read that one you will know why I like it.

And Confessions of a Crap Artist. That's good.

[The Phantom]

Confessions of a Crap Artist.

can't wait for "Confessions of a Crap Writer: A Memoir" by KJA
that's a book i'd read

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just starting Rama Revealed Arthur C Clarke.

[Star Dust]

About 1/3 of the way through Ursula K Leguin's Left Hand of Drakness. Nice so
far, but not feeling the vibe.

[Star Dust]

was posted at Worm's Haven:

http://cjonline.com/stories/082808/bre_fiction.shtml

Guess where I'll be next week? Bag o books anyone?

[Ampoliros]

I'd start with PK Dick's short stories, they are amazing. "Mold of Yancy" is fearfully prescient of political pundits today. I can't remember the title, I think its called "The Stranger" or "The Hanging Man" is another favorite about a man who closes up his shop and finds a man hung from the lightpost in broad daylight.

It's amazing how many of his stories have been raped into crap films. Blade Runner and Screamers are the only ones worth a damn. And Screamers is based off of about 2 lines from "Second Variety".

"Paycheck" is probably one of the best short stories ever written. I refused to go see the film, i knew they'd fuck it up incredibly.

[Liege-Killer]

Maybe I oughta give ol' PKD another try one of these days. The only thing I've read is Dr. Futurity, and it was crap. That kinda put me off, ya know?

[Omphalos]

Maybe I oughta give ol' PKD another try one of these days. The only thing I've read is Dr. Futurity, and it was crap. That kinda put me off, ya know?

A lot of his stuff comes off that way. He was writing to pay the bills, not say something grand (most of the time). But even so he is a really unique voice, and although the execution of some of his ideas sucks, the kernels of them are sometimes pretty good. I think one thing that bugs most people about Dick is that his plots are almost always all over the place. There is no structure at all to them. It bugs me, even though I know that was part of his unique avant-garde approach to writing.

Oh yea, and stay the hell away from VALIS until you have sufficient experience with hallucinogens.

[Omphalos]

Finished The Man Who Fell to Earth, by Walter Tevis on Saturday, and made a big dent in Stephen King's The Stand on Sunday.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just finish Rama Revealed fantastic ending to the series. I'll probably go on to read the sequels by just Gentry Lee at some point.

Now I'm on to The Instrumentality of Mankind by Cordwainer Smith.

[Omphalos]

Just finish Rama Revealed fantastic ending to the series. I'll probably go on to read the sequels by just Gentry Lee at some point.

Now I'm on to The Instrumentality of Mankind by Cordwainer Smith.

Is that the NESFA edition? That one, IIRC, is complete. I just started the NESFA edition of all of Don A. Stuart's SF.

[SandChigger]

Well, we all know what pile I have on the pile at the moment, so this is just an update of pile contents!

I was surprised to find, in the Borders in the Barboursville Mall, English translations of two of the GitS:SAC-spinoff novels I've mentioned previously:

The Lost Memory and Revenge of the Cold Machines, both by Junichi Fujisaku, from DH Press. Also picked up an English translation of the GitS 1.5: Human Error Processor manga.

(Was also completely blown away by finding pretty much the whole series, including Innocence and one of the other movies, in DVD in another store.)

Bunmei comes to the boonies!

[Seraphan]

I recently got a hold of the mangas as well, i havent seen all the episodes of both SAC abd SAC 2, nor Solid State Society movie. He he he but i'm working on it . Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence by the way is an excellent movie and i urge anyone that hasnt seen it to go see that movie

[GamePlayer]

The rest of the GITS franchise is surprisingly good. SAC and the second film were great; not as good as the first film, but they were some fine productions with a lot going for them. I've not yet finished the first season of SAC either, so I don't want to touch 2nd Gig or SSS. But I want to see them!

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just finish Rama Revealed fantastic ending to the series. I'll probably go on to read the sequels by just Gentry Lee at some point.

Now I'm on to The Instrumentality of Mankind by Cordwainer Smith.

Is that the NESFA edition? That one, IIRC, is complete. I just started the NESFA edition of all of Don A. Stuart's SF.

I don't think so, would it say NESFA somewhere on it? This certainly isn't complete, it doesn't even have Scanners Live in Vain which I'd really like to read. It has an Instrumentality timeline at the beginning which shows a bunch of shorts which aren't in this book, and this book has a few shorts from other universes. I don't know if you’ve seen the timeline, but it's waaay out to lunch unless I'm missing something (it puts Mark Elf at 2000 AD, but the story repeatedly states that it's about 16,000 years in the future. I have a feeling I might be missing something though).

Also, what's with the weird alternate WWII tech/history? I was pretty lost until I decided it must just be plain old alt-hist, at first I was trying to figure out if it was some kind of a riddle for the reader to figure out.

[Omphalos]

Its an altered history, but I don't think that Smith was too consistent. Who published the book that you have? Is it new? Is it published by Baen? NESFA is a publisher. Here is a link to their book. I know it has all the Insturmentality stories in it, and I think it has everything that he ever published, except for the two books of Norstrilia.

Here are some links to free Cordwainer Smith stories, including Scanners Live in Vain:

War No. 81-Q (rewrite)

The Lady who Sailed The Soul

Scanners Live in Vain

Queen of the Afternoon

Mark Elf

No! No! Not Rogov!

When the People Fell

Mother Hittun's Littul Kittuns

The Dead Lady of Clown Town

Under Old Earth

[A Thing of Eternity]

Thanks, I think I'll have to hunt down that Book, I just saw this one at a used book store and had to have it. It's published by DEL REY / Ballantine and it's a 1985, first edition was 1979. I'll also have to check out that re-write of War No. 81- Q I think this book has the original (from 1928) and it's pretty weak.

I agree, I don't think consistancy really bothered him much. I do like his killer nazi robots and nazi space ships from the 40s though.

[Rakis]

Just begun Time's Eye from Clarke and Baxter

[Omphalos]

Thanks, I think I'll have to hunt down that Book, I just saw this one at a used book store and had to have it. It's published by DEL REY / Ballantine and it's a 1985, first edition was 1979. I'll also have to check out that re-write of War No. 81- Q I think this book has the original (from 1928) and it's pretty weak.

I agree, I don't think consistancy really bothered him much. I do like his killer nazi robots and nazi space ships from the 40s though.

He was a man of his era, no?

My favorite stories by him are Mother Hittun's Littul Kittons and Scanners Live in Vain. There are of course other good ones, but I like those two the best.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Thanks again for those links Omph, I'm going to print off Scanners and read it before I get to the shorts which are set after it chronologically. Then I can worry about finding a nice novel copy of it at a more leisurely pace.

With anyone other than Smith I'd be pissed at the alt-hist (I hate alt-hist), but with him it's pretty necessary to the over all fucked-up-ness of his stories. It definitly adds rather than takes away in his case.

[Omphalos]

Well, they are really not alternate history stories. Smith was much more interested in human reactions and psychology. It was h is specialty as a spy. The alternate history aspects were nothing more than backdrop.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Well, they are really not alternate history stories. Smith was much more interested in human reactions and psychology. It was h is specialty as a spy. The alternate history aspects were nothing more than backdrop.

I know, I just normally wouldn't like any alternate history in an SF story I was reading. In his case he makes it work very well, and as you said its just background.

[Robspierre]

Added to my reading pile

For school:

One Who Walks Alone
The Barbaric Triumph
Blood & Thunder The Life and Art of Robert E. Howard


My me pile:

The Savage Sword of Conan Vol 2
The Dutchess (Keira Knightley cover)
Anathem
Red Sonja novels vol 3-5


Rob

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just started Black Man by Richard Morgan (titled Thirteen in the US).

[Nekhrun]

I'm starting a new pile today and it consists of Paul of Dune!

[Omphalos]

Ive chickened out with PuD. I dont want to read it. Ill let you guys handle it.

I finished Joe Haldeman's newest, Marsbound, last nigth, and started Looking Backward by Edward Bellamy.

[Manbearpig]

Sunday i bought Pail of Dung and Brisingr (Eragon book 3) ...reading pail of dung first...so i can read Brisingr second and actually feel good about dropping 50 bucks knowing one is garbage that encourages more garbage

[Robspierre]

Just added the unabridged audio versions of Messiah, Children, and God Emperor of Dune to the pile. Also Audio versions of Friday and a collection of Robert E. Howard stories.

Rob

[Freakzilla]

I think I'm going to re-read Julian May's Saga of Pliocene Exile again.

I couldn't say enough good things about her books.

First up... The Many-Colored Land

http://www.amazon.com/Many-Colored-Land ... pd_sim_b_2

4-1/2 stars... not that that means anything.

[Omphalos]

I think I'm going to re-read Julian May's Saga of Pliocene Exile again.

I couldn't say enough good things about her books.

First up... The Many-Colored Land

http://www.amazon.com/Many-Colored-Land ... pd_sim_b_2

4-1/2 stars... not that that means anything.

Ive been meaning to read those, Freak. You have said a lot of good things about them in the past. I actually have a copy of The Many Colored Lands. Just have not gotten to it yet.

I finished Hitchhiker's Guide last night, and started on a novella by Walter Miller, Jr. called The Darfstellar. I think Ill finish that this evening and start The Restaurant at the End of the Univerese.

[Freakzilla]

I think I'm going to re-read Julian May's Saga of Pliocene Exile again.

I couldn't say enough good things about her books.

First up... The Many-Colored Land

http://www.amazon.com/Many-Colored-Land ... pd_sim_b_2

4-1/2 stars... not that that means anything.

Ive been meaning to read those, Freak. You have said a lot of good things about them in the past. I actually have a copy of The Many Colored Lands. Just have not gotten to it yet.

I finished Hitchhiker's Guide last night, and started on a novella by Walter Miller, Jr. called The Darfstellar. I think Ill finish that this evening and start The Restaurant at the End of the Univerese.

I think I'll join you at the Restaurant, I just read HHG a couople months ago and I could use some quick comedy before getting into anything that serious.

You seem to have a lot of interest in myths and legends (didn't you have a topic on that? I couldn't find it), the Saga of Pliocene Exiles explains where they all come from, among other things.

[Omphalos]

I think I'm going to re-read Julian May's Saga of Pliocene Exile again.

I couldn't say enough good things about her books.

First up... The Many-Colored Land

http://www.amazon.com/Many-Colored-Land ... pd_sim_b_2

4-1/2 stars... not that that means anything.

Ive been meaning to read those, Freak. You have said a lot of good things about them in the past. I actually have a copy of The Many Colored Lands. Just have not gotten to it yet.

I finished Hitchhiker's Guide last night, and started on a novella by Walter Miller, Jr. called The Darfstellar. I think Ill finish that this evening and start The Restaurant at the End of the Univerese.

I think I'll join you at the Restaurant, I just read HHG a couople months ago and I could use some quick comedy before getting into anything that serious.

You seem to have a lot of interest in myths and legends (didn't you have a topic on that? I couldn't find it), the Saga of Pliocene Exiles explains where they all come from, among other things.

I moved the myths forum to the trash because Pardot bailed. Those books look interesting. She got a lot of critical props for writing them too.

[Freakzilla]

I liked the Pliocene Saga because it was a strong mix of SF and Fantasy elements. The Galactic Milieu and Intervention series is more straight SF. For all of them though, you must accept that mankind has latent mental abilities which are begining to blossom. If you can do that, it's almost an alternate history/speculative fiction series.

[Omphalos]

I liked the Pliocene Saga because it was a strong mix of SF and Fantasy elements. The Galactic Milieu and Intervention series is more straight SF. For all of them though, you must accept that mankind has latent mental abilities which are begining to blossom. If you can do that, it's almost an alternate history/speculative fiction series.

I'll buy that for a dollar!

[Robspierre]

Anathem by Neal Stephonson is being used to hold down two cats and a baby

Rob

[Freakzilla]

Anathem by Neal Stephonson is being used to hold down two cats and a baby

Rob

I can't believe you'd treat cats that way!

[Robspierre]

they are the neighbors cats and the little shits deserve it.

Rob

[Freakzilla]

I've created a PDF of Douglas Adams' Restaurant at the End of the Universe from the link Omph gave us. If anyone wants it, let me know. (I also have a PDF of HHGthG.)

[Freakzilla]

Kind of a depressing ending.

[SandChigger]

Got tired of fooking around with Pile of Dung and started reading Walter Jon Williams' The Praxis.

Nice!

This is my first Williams, but so far (I'm about 60-some pages in) I know two very good things about him:

(1) He can write. (Like Kevin J. Anderson only wishes he could.)

(2) He cares about incorporating a touch more scientific reality to his fiction (than hacks like Anderson) and either knows enough on his own to do so OR knows enough to ask others who do to help him out.

If the rest of the book (and the trilogy) is as good as what (little) I've read so far, I'm going to like this one a lot.

[Omphalos]

I enjoy his militart stuff. I have Solip: System in my pile.

[Robspierre]

William's is good, Hardwired rocked, but he can be more than an arrogant ass, his blog:


http://walterjonwilliams.blogspot.com/

he's a bit of a narcissist from what i hear from folks.

Rob

[A Thing of Eternity]

I'm still working on Cordwainer Smith's shorts collection The Instrumentality of Mankind. Just finished Drunkboat, which is probably my favorite of the collection so far.

[Robspierre]

Listening to the audiobook of God Emperor of Dune, just finished disk four.

Rob

[Rakis]

Finishing soon the Time Odyssey series by Clarke and Baxter

[inhuien]

Listening to the audiobook of God Emperor of Dune, just finished disk four.

Rob

Who's reading it please?

[Robspierre]

Listening to the audiobook of God Emperor of Dune, just finished disk four.

Rob

Who's reading it please?

Scott Brick, he's quite good.

Rob

[inhuien]

Thanks Rob.

[The Phantom]

soon to be reading pastwatch: the redemption of christopher columbus by orson scott card.

sounds good from descriptions. i'm quite a fan of time travel books. this is planned to be a trilogy, though some time has passed since this one's publication. the next two are supposed to be about the flood and the garden of eden

[A Thing of Eternity]

soon to be reading pastwatch: the redemption of christopher columbus by orson scott card.

sounds good from descriptions. i'm quite a fan of time travel books. this is planned to be a trilogy, though some time has passed since this one's publication. the next two are supposed to be about the flood and the garden of eden

Time travel or travel to alternate dimensions?

(Reaally sorry but I couldn't pass it up )

[The Phantom]

soon to be reading pastwatch: the redemption of christopher columbus by orson scott card.

sounds good from descriptions. i'm quite a fan of time travel books. this is planned to be a trilogy, though some time has passed since this one's publication. the next two are supposed to be about the flood and the garden of eden

Time travel or travel to alternate dimensions?

(Reaally sorry but I couldn't pass it up )

well done
time travel

[A Thing of Eternity]

soon to be reading pastwatch: the redemption of christopher columbus by orson scott card.

sounds good from descriptions. i'm quite a fan of time travel books. this is planned to be a trilogy, though some time has passed since this one's publication. the next two are supposed to be about the flood and the garden of eden

Time travel or travel to alternate dimensions?

(Reaally sorry but I couldn't pass it up )

well done
time travel

I'm glonna let that slide...

[The Phantom]

soon to be reading pastwatch: the redemption of christopher columbus by orson scott card.

sounds good from descriptions. i'm quite a fan of time travel books. this is planned to be a trilogy, though some time has passed since this one's publication. the next two are supposed to be about the flood and the garden of eden

Time travel or travel to alternate dimensions?

(Reaally sorry but I couldn't pass it up )

well done
time travel

I'm glonna let that slide...

in all honesty, i don't adhere to a literal belief in the creation story, i'd be what's considered 'old creationist' or 'creationomic' or something like that.

[A Thing of Eternity]

soon to be reading pastwatch: the redemption of christopher columbus by orson scott card.

sounds good from descriptions. i'm quite a fan of time travel books. this is planned to be a trilogy, though some time has passed since this one's publication. the next two are supposed to be about the flood and the garden of eden

Time travel or travel to alternate dimensions?

(Reaally sorry but I couldn't pass it up )

well done
time travel

I'm glonna let that slide...

in all honesty, i don't adhere to a literal belief in the creation story, i'd be what's considered 'old creationist' or 'creationomic' or something like that.

Something like: god created space and time (big bang) and then guided everything to where it is now through systems and planets forming and guided evolution and such? Seems to be a pretty common belief for theists now-a-days, and it makes much more sense than trying to take creation in The (or any other) book literally.

[The Phantom]

soon to be reading pastwatch: the redemption of christopher columbus by orson scott card.

sounds good from descriptions. i'm quite a fan of time travel books. this is planned to be a trilogy, though some time has passed since this one's publication. the next two are supposed to be about the flood and the garden of eden

Time travel or travel to alternate dimensions?

(Reaally sorry but I couldn't pass it up )

well done
time travel

I'm glonna let that slide...

in all honesty, i don't adhere to a literal belief in the creation story, i'd be what's considered 'old creationist' or 'creationomic' or something like that.

Something like: god created space and time (big bang) and then guided everything to where it is now through systems and planets forming and guided evolution and such? Seems to be a pretty common belief for theists now-a-days, and it makes much more sense than trying to take creation in The (or any other) book literally.

more along the lines of our translated word 'day' actually referred to a period of time in the original and creation was accomplished over a long period of time, which reconciles creation with the age of the earth as discovered through science. the writer of genesis was working from a limited knowledge and regardless of what was revealed to him, had to write from that perspective.

could the God willed it into existence have been accomplished through a mechanism such as a single point of beginning expanding outwards (big ban) ? sure. but still His will that accomplished it. I don't believe in evolution to the point of apes-->humans because I believe in a fundamental difference between man and animal. But did God take an ape-like creature and give it a soul to create it 'in his image' ? possibly.

While I believe that God could have willed the universe into existence to appear billions of years old to keep us guessing, I am not so arrogant as to think i have all the answers. I find the key to that is simply acknowledging the sovereignty of God over all of history and accepting that I don't have to know some answers.


EDIT TO ADD: admins, feel free to move this latest discussion (everything past AToE's "I'm gonna let that slide" probably) to an origins thread as it appears discussion may continue for a bit and I don't want to derail the sci-fi books thread

[A Thing of Eternity]

Sorry about the derailment too, I get carried away with the discussion sometimes and forget what thread I'm in.

I wouldn't mind this being moved either in case it does continue, but I'm personally not going to get into the whole creation vs evolution thing here, not much point seeing as we both have our opinions and neither of us is going to convince the other of anything. I've been running off too much about politics lately, no need to get me started on the even juicier topic of religion, best if I just walk away from this for now.

I would add though that I do appreciate views like yours which (I assume) incorporate original thought of your own and show questioning of what is presented both sides of the subject. Too many people (on both sides) refuse to question what they are told.

[Omphalos]

Derailments are OK. People know to post here about what they are reading, even if you guys are going off on a tangent. If you want it moved, let me know and Ill do it.

[Freakzilla]

[The Phantom]

kind of feel bad for adam there... despite being ripped, he's a little lacking in other areas...

EDIT: kind of feel bad for eve


nah ok, leave it where it is.. maybe we'll start a thread on that sometime.

[Freakzilla]

kind of feel bad for adam there... despite being ripped, he's a little lacking in other areas...

EDIT: kind of feel bad for eve


nah ok, leave it where it is.. maybe we'll start a thread on that sometime.

I think maybe the artist was trying to make himself feel better.

But look at the length of those noodles!

[A Thing of Eternity]

RAmen!

[Omphalos]

I always thought that when the divine one touched Adam that would change. Its like God were saying "Go forth and mulitply! Oh! I'd better make that easier for you! Here ya go, big fella; take this schlong!" Were just seeing him too early. After all, the thing obviously required a GIANT fig leaf the next time we see that region.

[Nekhrun]

I just started The God Delusion yesterday.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I just started The God Delusion yesterday.

Is it any good? I was looking at that book, and another one call God is not Great but I decided to skip them. I don't really stand to benefit from someone explaining to me why atheism is better than theism (or is the author arguing Agnosticism vs Religion?), but as long as the author doesn't go on some kind of crazy self righteous rant for the whole thing I would like to read it at some point just to see if he raises any good argument points. Despite being a hard line Atheist myself I have a disslike of other Atheists going on uninformed unobjective rants (well informed objective rants I do enjoy though ).

I shall await your review to purchase this one Nekhrun, if you say its worth reading I'll give it a go.

[Liege-Killer]

But did God take an ape-like creature and give it a soul to create it 'in his image' ? possibly.

I thought what happened to those apes was explained in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

soon to be reading pastwatch: the redemption of christopher columbus by orson scott card.

I'm sorry for you.

I just started The God Delusion yesterday.

One of the few books of his I haven't read, for the simple reason that I already agree with everything it would tell me. But it'll be good to get your opinion when you're done.

[SandChigger]

I rather enjoyed god Is Not Great (I'd never heard the Buddhist joke before ). Have The God Delusion but haven't read it yet.

I wondered if this was going to go the way it did. And it did.

Leto was right: prescience is a bore.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I rather enjoyed god Is Not Great (I'd never heard the Buddhist joke before ). Have The God Delusion but haven't read it yet.

Would you recommend it? I could handle some more reading in my pile that isn't fiction.

I wondered if this was going to go the way it did. And it did.

Leto was right: prescience is a bore.

What went what way?

[SandChigger]

Hmm...what's that quote about the thing better left unsaid?

Would I recommend it? Hmmm....

Yeah, why not. I breezed through it fairly quickly. I hadn't read any of Hitchens' stuff before but remembered his name as the man who vilified the Old Prune of Calcutta. No new or stunning arguments that I recall. Get if from the library or bargain bin.

[Nekhrun]

I just started The God Delusion yesterday.

Is it any good? I was looking at that book, and another one call God is not Great but I decided to skip them. I don't really stand to benefit from someone explaining to me why atheism is better than theism (or is the author arguing Agnosticism vs Religion?), but as long as the author doesn't go on some kind of crazy self righteous rant for the whole thing I would like to read it at some point just to see if he raises any good argument points. Despite being a hard line Atheist myself I have a disslike of other Atheists going on uninformed unobjective rants (well informed objective rants I do enjoy though ).

I shall await your review to purchase this one Nekhrun, if you say its worth reading I'll give it a go.

I'd agree with Chig. God is not Great makes for a somewhat interesting quick read. I'm not finished with The God Delusion yet, but it doesn't really add anything new to the discussion. I do like that there is a well laid out argument against religion all in one place, so for that reason I'd recommend it. I borrowed it and suggest you do the same. I'm enjoying it so far. It might be one of those books though that it's nice to have a copy of so you can lend it to people.

[Himachil]

I just started The God Delusion yesterday.

Is it any good? I was looking at that book, and another one call God is not Great but I decided to skip them. I don't really stand to benefit from someone explaining to me why atheism is better than theism (or is the author arguing Agnosticism vs Religion?), but as long as the author doesn't go on some kind of crazy self righteous rant for the whole thing I would like to read it at some point just to see if he raises any good argument points. Despite being a hard line Atheist myself I have a disslike of other Atheists going on uninformed unobjective rants (well informed objective rants I do enjoy though ).

I shall await your review to purchase this one Nekhrun, if you say its worth reading I'll give it a go.

I'd agree with Chig. God is not Great makes for a somewhat interesting quick read. I'm not finished with The God Delusion yet, but it doesn't really add anything new to the discussion. I do like that there is a well laid out argument against religion all in one place, so for that reason I'd recommend it. I borrowed it and suggest you do the same. I'm enjoying it so far. It might be one of those books though that it's nice to have a copy of so you can lend it to people.

That sounds about right: It is a very well laid out one-stop-shop for destroying every single argument you see used by ignorant people

Richard Dawkins always comes across as a bit of an arse - It might be the way he attacks religion that makes me dislike him a bit - but he does explain why he attacks religion and you (I) have to agree with him on all counts - it all sounds very true.

I listened to the audiobook (which is mostly read by him). Was good - worth a gander for sure.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I'll see if a copy pops up at my favorite used book shops. Thanks.

[SandChigger]

Have almost finished The Praxis (been reading just a wee bit every night before bed ).

I really like the fact that after thousands and thousands of years they haven't got "inertial dampeners" on their ships and they have to limit their accelerations to low multiples of gee. Adds a nice bit of realism to the space travel and battle scenes that is sadly lacking in, ahem, a certain other series.

(I'm never happy about wormhole transit systems, but Williams adds some interesting twists.)

[Omphalos]

Just finished From Hell last night, and sarted something called The Ninth Craft, or something like that. Its not looking too good.

[SandChigger]

(Sarting...that's nothing like sharting, is it? )

[Omphalos]

(Sarting...that's nothing like sharting, is it? )

Actually, with this book.....

[inhuien]

Got me a copy of Matter at long last, I'll get on to that after I'm done with The Jesus Incident.

[The Phantom]

gonna be reading Kurzweil's The Age of Spiritual Machines after I finish off the Asimov's empire series tomorrow.

I very rarely read non-fiction but this one sounds pretty good. heard of it through my fandom of Our Lady Peace

[GamePlayer]

Currently on Cormac McCarthy's The Road.

[Omphalos]

Currently on Cormac McCarthy's The Road.

Great book.

Ill give The Third Craft one more try. Last night they dug up a UFO in northeastern Canada. Its not often I come across Canuk SF, so Im going to give this one the benefit of every doubt, but the writing is pretty bad. Its a try at YA book I think, but I cant imagine a teen being into this.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I'm working my way through Tad Williams' Shadowmarch again because I just bought the second book Shadowplay and it's been so long I can't remember much of the first.

Then I'll wait another couple years for Shadowrise and have to read them all all over again. Kinda painful with these super thick super complicated epics.

I also just got an Amazon shipment so I have Use of Weapons and Pirate Sun in the pile as well.

[Omphalos]

Not only am I not so much a fan of fantasy, but those Tad Williams books are fucking monsters. Like the new GRRM books, I just cant foresee myself finding the time to slog through that much.

Does anyone else hate seeing so many ginormous books out there?

[A Thing of Eternity]

Not only am I not so much a fan of fantasy, but those Tad Williams books are fucking monsters. Like the new GRRM books, I just cant foresee myself finding the time to slog through that much.

Does anyone else hate seeing so many ginormous books out there?

You aint kidding about them being monsters: the final book of his Memory Sorrow and Thorn series was 1630ish pages in paperback, had to be split into 2 smaller books for the paperback run. For the hardcover I think it was about a thousand pages with tiny writing like a paperback. The whole 3 (or 4) book series was about 3200 pages. Ouch.

This ShadowMarch series is also going to be three books and is shaping up to be about the same size, maybe a bit bigger or smaller.

I hate seeing big books that don't need to be big, but for something like this it actually is necessary to clock in at, say, 800,000 words per story. Williams tends to do coming of age type stuff where the reader is taken so carefully through the character changes (which are beautifully shown not told about, fuck you and your writing KJA) that when the character finally has that moment where they realize how much they've changed the reader experiences it too, because it was so subtle a shift that it wasn't noticed. Like finding an old picture of yourself. Very cool, very well done writing.

I'm growing out of fantasy myself, but Williams manages to suck me in because it's just so bloody well written, and his stories don't really have much real magic in them, mostly just weird creatures. They are not fast paced though (aside from the odd scene that needs to be), and you better be ready to give up a good chunk of your year to do one of his series, because it's not the kind of stuff you can read more than 30 or 50 pages in a sitting before getting fidgety.

I like my epics though, I can see why a lot of people don't want to touch them. I'm looking forward to reading the GRRM stuff, but I think I'll leave it a few years so he can finish it and I can read it all together.

[Robspierre]

I hate long extended fantasy series in general but I do like GRRM's stuff, well written and unbelievably gritty and harsh, no hobbits and crap in his work

Rob

[SandChigger]

Well...I finished The Praxis on Friday but I'm having real trouble making any progress in The Sundering. Williams is doing the "repetition of stuff even a moron should remember and not need reminded of" routine big time. I mean, I'm talking McDune level or worse, and it's really starting to piss me off.

Who's read these things again? Anyone remember how long he keeps this shit up? Much more of it and I'm going to throw the second and third books back on the pile and wait a few months to read them. If he's going to remind me of everything I read in the first book, I may as well wait until the details have become fuzzy to read the sequels.

(Edit: On the way down the road I got to thinking that maybe recap is a better term for what he's doing. Early morning fuzz.... )

[Liege-Killer]

Does anyone else hate seeing so many ginormous books out there?

*raises hand*

To me, the ideal length for a novel is anywhere between 200 and 400 pages. Anything over that and it really starts to annoy me. I think there's something wrong if an author can't tell a story in 400 pages.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Does anyone else hate seeing so many ginormous books out there?

*raises hand*

To me, the ideal length for a novel is anywhere between 200 and 400 pages. Anything over that and it really starts to annoy me. I think there's something wrong if an author can't tell a story in 400 pages.

Even trilogies and such? I think sometimes a story just takes a long time and that's that.

[GamePlayer]

Can't say I really agree. I like shorter books as much as the next person simply because they are easier to read and I can read more books. But some of the best books are huge. Dune is over 400 (but only just) and Lord of the Rings is immense as a trilogy. Watchmen is also very big for a graphic novel. Good things sometimes take time

[Omphalos]

I dont consider Dune to be ginormous. But a book, especially a book in a series where all entries are 900 pp + seems excessive to me. Nobody needs that much space to tell one story. But you get these books with twelve stories wrapepd around each other where the author bothers to tell you such things as the hue of the reflection from a fly's wings and such...its just too much.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I thought Dune was a "medium" sized book myself, my copy is about 480 pages.

I do agree that some authors could stand to condense their work a fair bit, even Tad Williams, whose work I love, takes at least twice or three times as many pages to tell a tale as a really good, well condensed writer like Tolkien would need to tell the same story. LoTR is a huge book, but if anyone else had written it it would have been trice the size.

But that said - though I do prefer "dense" writing to frilly stuff with too much filler, I still like em big. Anything under 350ish pages feels like a peice of short fiction to me, which is fine, I think shorter stories actually allow for more artistic freedom (for whatever reason). And I do think that the better the technical writer, the less words that are needed to get the same info across. Even then, I like 600-700 pages for what I consider a robust story, and as long as there is a real point to it I'm happy to pick up a multi-book piece that is literally 8 inches thick from the first cover to the last. Sometimes that's what is necessary.

[Liege-Killer]

I didn't mean my statement as an iron-clad rule. Of course there are exceptions. And of course the better the story, the more I'm willing to forgive the excessive length. But still, I don't think I've ever read a book over, say, 500 pages that I thought really, really needed that much space to be told. Even some of the Dune books, if you ask me, could have been a bit shorter.

Some of the best books I've read lately have been from the 50's and 60's, and authors back then didn't seem to need 500+ pages to tell a good story. Some of the best books I know of are less than 250.

[Omphalos]

Some of the best books I've read lately have been from the 50's and 60's, and authors back then didn't seem to need 500+ pages to tell a good story. Some of the best books I know of are less than 250.

What I should have said. Personally I love SF novellas. Get in - tell a story - get out. Volia!

[A Thing of Eternity]

Sometimes short is best, just read The Machine Stops and that would have sucked as a big epic novel.

[The Phantom]

Sometimes short is best,

yeah, and only losers say the main goal is having fun

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just started into Shadowplay by Tad Williams. I'm starting to get SF withdrawl though, hope I can hold out long enough to finish this book!

[Omphalos]

Just read Teh Walking Dead omnibus number two last night. I love that series.

[Robspierre]

Go-Go Girls of the Apocalypse by Victor Gischler. Fuck yes, damn this book rocked.

America after the apocalypse where the main bastions of civilization are Joey Armageddon's Sassy-A-Go-Go strip clubs. Toss in Buffalo Bill, strippers, violence, a crazy mountain man Ted from Atlanta who hates Jane Fonda and Tarantino-esque action, minus the wankfest, and this book satisfies on all levels. It's a fast fun read that has all the goodness of an exploitation film without the perv in the trenchcoat sitting next to you jacking off.

Rob

[SandChigger]

I read Watchmen up until Rorschach gets captured and then kinda got bogged down with some other stuff.

I rode through the annoyance at all the recap and have been reading fits and pieces of William's The Sundering, mostly as a distraction/change of pace and something to make me drowsy before bed.

I was reading a little bit more just a while ago and suddenly came across mention of a new character named "Lord Convocate Oda Yoshitoshi".

Well shit.

One thing that really pisses me off is the insistence by a certain faction of Japanese that it should be perfectly all right for them to keep their names in native Japanese order (surname first, followed by given name; they don't have "middle names") even when writing in English. Because a person's name is very important, and expecting someone to change their name around just because that's the way English does it is cultural and linguistic imperialism. Never mind the possible confusion that may result. Or the fact that the never voiced expectation on their part—that everyone in the world needs to learn that Japanese names are in "reverse" order to what someone reading English expects—is in its way just as imperialistic.

Anyway, there's also a faction of (soft-headed) non-Japanese who buy into the line, and since Oda is a famous family name (ever hear of the warlord Nobunaga?) and Yoshitoshi is a male given name that probably is never used as a surname, I figured Williams for one of the gaijin puttyheads and was annoyed. Let's ignore the fact that thousands of years have gone by and that Williams has explicitly stated that no one still speaks or really remembers the old languages of Earth, the Japanese are still sticking to the name bullshit.

But I read on...and in the next few paragraphs came across...

"Yoshitoshi was a broad-shouldered, glossy-haired man ... There was a Senior Captain Lord Simon Yoshitoshi ... Clan Yoshitoshi ...."

Oh. Shit.

My earlier annoyance was replaced by that ole sinking feeling of profound disappointment you get when you realize someone you kinda hoped better of has made a colossally stupid mistake. Dammit. This is just as bad as, or maybe even worse than, Brian "Fuzzyhead" Herbert's ridiculous Saito Watanabe (two surnames, neither of which is likely to ever be used as a given name) in his Timeweb books.

I don't know...I think this has finally killed this one for me. (Mind you, this is on page 162 out of 436 and I'm really not feeling any great love or interest for the characters. Meh.)

[SandChigger]

Someone shoot me already. Beyond reason I've slogged through another 100 pp of The Sundering. Since nothing much is happening on the civil war front, Williams is focusing on the on-again-off-again romance of the two main characters, two aristocratic "Peers", and the doings of the rich and richer and better connected. Now they've broken up again and it made no sense at all. (To me at least. The woman is a head-case imposter and the man is a brilliant doofus that can't keep it in his pants.)

It's never a good sign when you want the war to flare up again and the main characters to all die.

I'm going to try to get through the rest of the thing and then read Scalzi's Old Man's War instead of the third Praxis. Feh.

[Omphalos]

Just finished Survivor by Octavia Butler and The Drowned World by J.G. Ballard. Started A Time of Changes by Silverberg and a history of the genre from 1930 to 1970 by Lester Del Rey. I also started an obscure title by Olaf Stapledon called Darkness and Light. Its really good. Oh! and I read both of the Gunslinger graphic novels and the last two Walking Dead graphic novels during various dumps in the last two weeks. There is nothing as cathartic as reading zombie literature while evacuating one's bowels. Not even porn.

[The Phantom]

currently reading strangers in a strange land.. the first 2 sections i thought were great.... wasn't sure through the third one... seems to be getting cool in the 4th.

picking up the positronic man as a time filler before I read robots and empire once i get back to my place in Toronto. finished off the first 3 robot novels this past week and am loving them. I think I almost prefer them to the foundation books, but the jury is still out.

[SandRider]

The Judas Field, Howard Bahr

River Run Red:Forrest & the Fort Pillow Massacre, Andrew Ward

starting annual re-reading of The Decameron

[Omphalos]

You read The Decameron yearly? Ive been thinking of rereading that one lately too.

[SandChigger]

FINALLY finished The Sundering this morning.

The last third was a lot better (the middle bit was terrible!) once Williams got past the hoity-toity rich bitch oooh-waaah and implausible romance bullshit and returned to the space and urban guerilla warfare.

The third volume, Conventions of War, was handy on a nearby pile, so I picked it up and read a few pages....

He starts in with the recap bullshit again, so I put it down. I'll start the Scalzi later in the afton.

(The Galactica Marathon starts at 3:00 today. Stopped last night with the return of the Pegasus episode I'd seen before. I didn't catch the rest of that arc when it aired (and I posted about it) before. Curious to see how it plays out, but not really looking forward to it. )

[Omphalos]

Which Scalzi? The new one?

[SandChigger]

Old Man's War

[Omphalos]

Enjoyable. Im halfway through it right now, but I put it aside a few weeks ago when Vol 3 and 4 of my zombie comic books came in. Yahoo! I think Trang loves that one.

[SandRider]

You read The Decameron yearly? Ive been thinking of rereading that one lately too.

yeah, it's a traditional thing - I've got the 1940 Heritage Club edition my Daddy had - it
was one of his favorites (with Tristam Shandy) - he'd sit in his chair and smoke his pipe and
read one novel every other day for ten months - (one month per day) {There's "Ten Days",
each with "Ten Novells"} (November & December was Dickens) He died in 73, I got the book. I was already smoking a pipe, so ....

You know, it's like what the Gameplayer said in jacurutu about the mediocre literature.
There's plenty of good stuff out there.
I went thru a period of reading nothing but Victorian novels for a long time, Jane Austen
to Thomas Hardy.

These days, all I read is Civil War and Texas History related stuff, and there's enough of
that to keep you busy....


{hey, Chig, has BSG gotten to point where they kill off Starbuck ?}

[SandChigger]

{hey, Chig, has BSG gotten to point where they kill off Starbuck ?}

OH YOU BASTARD!!!



No, but it looks from the preview for the episode starting RIGHT NOW like Adama (Lee) is finally going to nail her!

[SandRider]

oh,shoot, they haven't temporarily settled on New Caprica, huh ? that
whole show kinda runs together for me - I've got all the available DVDs
and alot of times just stick one in for background noise while I'm
puttering around the house. Oh yeah, if you're at the Pegasus part,
yeah, that was a long, long time ago. Do the Japs not sell bootleg
DVDs the way the rest of Asia does ? Guess not, Big Friend of Uncle Sam.
Hope a boat to Indonesia and get all the boxed sets for a dollar.

[Liege-Killer]

I spent a lot of time last year reading older books. So right now I'm spending a little time going in the other direction, picking up some more current stuff (recently published or soon to be). I've read next to nothing from recent times, say the last 5 years. So I got these three, from authors I have never read before:

Walter Jon Williams -- This Is Not A Game
(just finished, not terribly impressed but it's ok)

Michael Flynn -- Eifelheim
(working on it now, like it a lot)

Robert J. Sawyer -- Rollback
(waiting on the shelf)

I've got lots of older stuff to read too. I picked up a big H.G. Wells volume with seven novels in it, so I'll be reading some of that soon.

[SandChigger]

Ended up not starting the Scalzi until bedtime.

Initially set in small-town Ohio (where Scalzi lives, last time I heard) - Kewl!

It's like having SandRider in yer head.


(BG ended with the Cylons showing up at New Caprica and the Fleet squealing "Run away!" But these are obviously the New Good Cyclons, so it's kewl. For now. )

[SandChigger]

Loving the Scalzi. About halfway thru now.

(Who's the military scifi freak again ... Trang?)

[Omphalos]

Yep. Trang.

[Omphalos]

Finishing Darkness and the Light, by Olaf Stapledon tonight. Will probably start Galactic Pot Healer by PKD, then all my library books are read, and my pile will actually be down to just a few. One Norm Cowie book, one Jules Verne, and a Hal Clement.

[SandChigger]

Had to take a break from proofreading theses/essays, so I read more of the Scalzi for an hour or two. Came back down from upstairs and got on Amazon and ordered the next two books in the series.

I've got a minor problem with the "It's a wild and wooly universe out there teeming with hostile aliens" element (if that were true, why hadn't any of them shown up at Earth for the free buffet long before we could defend ourselves?), but overall it's fun enough that I can overlook that.

The book was published by TOR, the clueless lot what bring us the McDune books. I'm coming to consider them the whores of scifi.

[Omphalos]

Tom Doherty and Tor are worth their weight in gold. They have done LOTS to bring good SF to market.

[SandChigger]

So we forgive them for also doing the shit like McDune?

[Omphalos]

I prefer not to slay the messenger.

[SandChigger]

We're speaking to the kinder, gentler Omphalos now, correct?

Finished the Scalzi. Not sure what to get into next...

Anyone ever read his blog?

[Robspierre]

I do from time to time. I like his "Big idea" posts with other authors. Way ore entertaining than the hack's.

Rob

[Omphalos]

We're speaking to the kinder, gentler Omphalos now, correct?

Naw. Ive always respected Tor and been thankful for what they do. I'm not trying to quash your opinion or shut you up or anything. Just saying that I have a strong feeling about that one. But you can call them whores all you like and I promise not to be offended.

[SandChigger]

Fair enough.

Since I do most of my book shopping online these days, and not in actual stores, I guess I don't have a feel for their product line. What's their crap-to-diamond ratio?


Happened to remember the Ted Chiang as I was rummaging about and started that last night, with the title story.

Interesting....


(Seriously ... who in the world ever read KJA and thought he was a good writer? I just don't get it....)

[Robspierre]

There are those who think Laurell K. Hamilton is a good writer too

Rob

[SandChigger]

For anyone else whose first response to Rob's post above was also

WHO?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurell_K._Hamilton



(Seriously, had NEVER heard of her.)

[Omphalos]

Fair enough.

Since I do most of my book shopping online these days, and not in actual stores, I guess I don't have a feel for their product line. What's their crap-to-diamond ratio?

Better than most, I think:

http://www.omphalosbookreviews.com/inde ... her/tor/NA

(Seriously ... who in the world ever read KJA and thought he was a good writer? I just don't get it....)

Some editors read books and get excited. Some suits read sales reports and get excited. All those fucktard MBA's out there who no longer work their "magic" on Wall Street will be looking for other jobs shortly, so look for American society to get even dumber.

As for KJA...Ive said it before. Once you shame the American public into reading more, it will do exactly what it is supposed to do; demand written material that is on a par with its average intelligence. The exact same thing happened with political elections. You shame the idiots into voting more, and you have more idiots winning. It only took us 240 years to wreck the excellent system that the founding fathers designed to keep that from happening, and we did it with Diddy's "Vote or Die" campaign.

[SandChigger]

Aren't you Mister Sunshine today!

[Mandy]

I picked up Hyperion again yesterday. I tried reading it before and I guess I just wasn't in the mood. Great book, I'm glad I waited.

Anyway, I'm reading Martin Silenus's chapter and this passage made me think of KJA:

It isn't hard being a hack writer. Between Dying Earth II and Dying Earth IX, six standard years had passed relatively painlessly. My research was meager, my plots formulaic, my characters cardboard, my prose preliterate, and my free time was my own. (I would have shit myself if he'd said he spent his free time hiking)

[SandChigger]

I wonder if he knows KJA. They both live in Colorado.

He never would respond to my inquiry about whether he had ever been contacted by (or in contact with) the HLP in connection with writing Dune-related material.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Currently about halfway through Ian Banks' Use of Weapons - really enjoying it so far - seems to be typical Banks, prose that is almost poetry, and not much has happened yet. He seems to be leaving most of the real heavy plot to the end of his novels, not sure if it's something he always does or just in these first 3 I've read so far.

[SandChigger]

Ah, Use of Weapons.

Whatever you do, don't peek ahead at the end.

I'm still chugging along with the Chiang, but have added Loprieno's Ancient Egyptian: A Linguistic Introduction.

No, not scifi, but quite enjoyable.

[Robspierre]

The Hounds of Skaith-Leigh Brackett.

Rob

[Omphalos]

Monster Nation, by David Wellington. Zombie fare. Fun.

[Omphalos]

I finished the Monster Trilogy; 890 pages of gory zombie destruction. FUN! Now I have started Ira Levin's The Boys from Brazil. Its a lot more forumulaic than I remember, but then again, at the time I read it I was very much into Stephen King and Dean Koontz and the like.

[SandChigger]

Finished The Ghost Brigades and have started The Last Colony. Am now a definite Scalzi fan.

Got Starship Troopers on the pile, too; have never read it.


Anyone remember a military scifi story from years ago about a troop on a jungle planet, fighting a biotech savvy bunch of rebels or aliens. (Something about booby-trapped sloths?) Injured men in the troop keep dying mysteriously, when they shouldn't be, from just minor wounds. Turns out their medic has gone psycho and is overadministering the pain-killers....

Ring any bells? I probably read it in an anthology in the late 70s or early 80s.

[SandRider]

53rd Alabama Cavalry (Partisan Rangers) : Regimental History
Robert McClendon, one of my cousins ...

[Liege-Killer]

I picked up a couple of Iain Banks' books today, since you guys mention him so often and I'm really not familiar with him. I got Consider Phlebas and Excession. Hell, I might even read them within the next couple of months, unless other reading options intrude.

Actually, I did read The Player of Games a long time ago -- must have been just when it was published, at the tail end of my teen years. I don't remember much about it at all. That's probably a reflection on my memory rather than on the book.

[GamePlayer]

Have fun and enjoy. I'm eager to hear your thoughts on the Banks books.

[Robspierre]

Finished In The Court of the Crimson Kings Audio book by S.M. Stirling and starting Spook Country by ol Billy Gibson next.

Rob

[A Thing of Eternity]

I finally finished Use of Weapons yesterday (had to read some other material for school, slowed me down). Great book, I think this is one I could stand to read again though, to look for foreshadowing of that "surprise ending", or, if that's missing entirely, then try to figure out what exactly Banks was trying to achieve other than shock value. He doesn't seem like the type to just shock for the sake of shock to me, and I'm left with the feeling that I missed something.

[SandChigger]

I had rather a lot of fun day-dreaming after that one.

"Oh, what an interesting bookcase! Those almost look like real b...."

Finished The Last Colony. Got three more Scalzi books on the pile now, but think I'll finish the rest of the Chiang first.

[Omphalos]

I'll finish the rest of the Chiang first.

Yaaa! Excellent book through and through.

[GamePlayer]

I finally finished Use of Weapons yesterday (had to read some other material for school, slowed me down). Great book, I think this is one I could stand to read again though, to look for foreshadowing of that "surprise ending", or, if that's missing entirely, then try to figure out what exactly Banks was trying to achieve other than shock value. He doesn't seem like the type to just shock for the sake of shock to me, and I'm left with the feeling that I missed something.

The ending definitely gives more than just a good shock ending. It tells a lot about Zakalwe. So much so in fact that the ending forces the reader to reinterpret a lot of the events of the book. Hence, that's why you are likely interested in reading Use of Weapons again. Which I strongly recommend.

If you liked Use of Weapons and appreciated the narrative complexity of the books, I'd recommend reading The Wasp Factory (non-sci-fi). It has a very similar style and is wonderful for pulling the rug from underneath your feet

[A Thing of Eternity]

I just started Pirate Sun by Karl Schroeder.

[Robspierre]

Finished Spook Country audiobook and am now on Time Enough For Love Audio Book. Twenty eight hours of dirty old man Heinlein! 8)

Rob

[Omphalos]

Once again Ive got seven books going at once. I gotta stop doing that. The one I picked up last night was Foundation's Edge, by Asimov.

[Freakzilla]

Once again Ive got seven books going at once. I gotta stop doing that. The one I picked up last night was Foundation's Edge, by Asimov.

Pffftt... I read all six Dune books at once AND wrote summaries.

I've got those Julian May books in LIT format if interested. (I believe that's microsoft reader).

[Omphalos]

Once again Ive got seven books going at once. I gotta stop doing that. The one I picked up last night was Foundation's Edge, by Asimov.

Pffftt... I read all six Dune books at once AND wrote summaries.

I've got those Julian May books in LIT format if interested. (I believe that's microsoft reader).

Well, yea, but it took you two years. I did my seven in a week.

[Freakzilla]

Seriously, I don't know how you can do that. If I hadn't read all those Dune books before I'd have been totally lost. I can read one for a while then put it down and pick up another but I can't go back and forth like that and really get into it. I'm not a fast reader and I have to work at my retention too. If I'm to have any chance of finishing a book I have to go straight through. I wish I was a better reader.

I guess it wouldn't be that same as if I could just plug in, like in the matrix.

[The Phantom]

Once again Ive got seven books going at once. I gotta stop doing that. The one I picked up last night was Foundation's Edge, by Asimov.

love that book.

[Omphalos]

Seriously, I don't know how you can do that. If I hadn't read all those Dune books before I'd have been totally lost. I can read one for a while then put it down and pick up another but I can't go back and forth like that and really get into it. I'm not a fast reader and I have to work at my retention too. If I'm to have any chance of finishing a book I have to go straight through. I wish I was a better reader.

I guess it wouldn't be that same as if I could just plug in, like in the matrix.

If I didn't have a screaming case of ADHD I could never do things that way.

[Freakzilla]

Once again Ive got seven books going at once. I gotta stop doing that. The one I picked up last night was Foundation's Edge, by Asimov.

love that book.

It's been a long time since I've read that series...

[Mandy]

I'm about halfway through Even Cowgirls Get the Blues. I love Tom Robbins.

[Himachil]

I have no idea what to listen to next at work.

Just finished Breakfast of Champions - not as good as Slaughterhouse Five... but still firmly cementing Vonnegut as one of my new favourite authors

Aww - just seen a link for Ender's Game Unabridged.. and I've just had a brilliant idea

[SandChigger]

I never could get into/through Cowgirls.

Loved Still Life With Woodpecker, though.

[Mandy]

I love the names he comes up with. Bonanza Jellybean!

You should try Skinny Legs and All, I really liked that one.

[Ampoliros]

any fans of Moby Dick? I love it. I know, it's not sci-fi. at the moment i'm reading more graphic novels since schoolwork requires most of my mental capacity. I'm half-way through another reading of Watchmen, and restarting my foot and a half tall stack of Conan Comics.

Use of Weapons sounds interesting, I skipped through some of the responses since you guys say it has a shocking ending. Do I need to read the other books in the series first?

[SandChigger]

Well ... not so into the Moby, but a spotted dick is nice around the holidays.

[Omphalos]

any fans of Moby Dick?

Here is something I wrote a while ago on Moby Dick.

Well ... not so into the Moby, but a spotted dick is nice around the holidays.

I'm not even going to pretend to know what this means, but I think the spotted ones should be stayed away from.

[SandChigger]

You've never had spotted dick?!

Barbarian!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_Dick

[Omphalos]

You've never had spotted dick?!

Barbarian!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_Dick

No. I have never had a spotted dick. And if you have I ain't shaking your hand when we meet.

[inhuien]

Do I need to read the other books in the series first?

Not at all, Stripped to the essentials the Culture setting is quite simply explained and Banks deals with it in such a way that it's not repetitive to long term readers.

[SandChigger]

You've never had spotted dick?!

Barbarian!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_Dick

No. I have never had a spotted dick. And if you have I ain't shaking your hand when we meet.

You didn't even bother looking at the Dikipedia article, did you?

[Omphalos]

You've never had spotted dick?!

Barbarian!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_Dick

No. I have never had a spotted dick. And if you have I ain't shaking your hand when we meet.

You didn't even bother looking at the Dikipedia article, did you?

I looked at it. I just decided that you meant somehting else.

[Liege-Killer]

Have fun and enjoy. I'm eager to hear your thoughts on the Banks books.

I finished Consider Phlebas a few nights ago, and liked it quite a lot. I give it high marks for world-building; I liked the settings, and the whole social and political background of the Culture-Idiran War. A lot of cool ideas in it. On another level, though, it struck me as kind of comical. I mean, you have this Free Company being led around by this totally incompetent leader (Kraiklyn) who gets them into all kinds of trouble..... that part wasn't very believable. Still, there was something compelling about the book overall, just a feeling of being very comfortable with it.

Question for the Banks fans: is there any need for, or benefit from, reading the Culture books in their published order? Or does it not matter at all?

[A Thing of Eternity]

Have fun and enjoy. I'm eager to hear your thoughts on the Banks books.

I finished Consider Phlebas a few nights ago, and liked it quite a lot. I give it high marks for world-building; I liked the settings, and the whole social and political background of the Culture-Idiran War. A lot of cool ideas in it. On another level, though, it struck me as kind of comical. I mean, you have this Free Company being led around by this totally incompetent leader (Kraiklyn) who gets them into all kinds of trouble..... that part wasn't very believable. Still, there was something compelling about the book overall, just a feeling of being very comfortable with it.

Question for the Banks fans: is there any need for, or benefit from, reading the Culture books in their published order? Or does it not matter at all?

I haven't ran into a book yet that would have suffered from being read out of order, they don't seem to be very inter-connected - buuut, I've only read three so far, so there could be books ahead that would spoil something in these first ones.

I thought Phlebas was neat, but that the other books have been far superior.

[SandChigger]

I was just going to say the same thing.

I read Phlebas first (per GP's suggestion ) and really liked it. But in retrospect it's the one I enjoyed the least.

(That make sense? )

There's at least one Culture woman and her persnickety droid friend that reappear in one of the short stories. But I didn't know that and read the story before the novel. Didn't make any difference.


Edit: Finally finished the last story in the Chiang book. Heading off next on a road trip to New Crobuzon and parts unknown.

[Omphalos]

Perdido Street Station?

[SandChigger]

Bingo. Bango. Jingo. Jango.



Django?


Steam(ed Rice )punk?!

[inhuien]

Anyone here seen Visitor Q? Now that is one effed up leftfield flick.

[Omphalos]

Bingo. Bango. Jingo. Jango.



Django?


Steam(ed Rice )punk?!

Is that the book cover? Looks like a movie poster.

[Mandy]

I read Perdido Street Station, it was interesting. The story is very good, but there were times when I wished China Mieville had used less words to describe things. He's not repetitious, but he is wordy. Sometimes that is a good thing, and sometimes it isn't.

[SandChigger]

Wordy ... yum!

(Movie poster, Omph. "Sukiyaki Western ... Jango!" Was on one of my satellite channels, but I just couldn't....)

[GamePlayer]

Have fun and enjoy. I'm eager to hear your thoughts on the Banks books.

I finished Consider Phlebas a few nights ago, and liked it quite a lot. I give it high marks for world-building; I liked the settings, and the whole social and political background of the Culture-Idiran War. A lot of cool ideas in it. On another level, though, it struck me as kind of comical. I mean, you have this Free Company being led around by this totally incompetent leader (Kraiklyn) who gets them into all kinds of trouble..... that part wasn't very believable. Still, there was something compelling about the book overall, just a feeling of being very comfortable with it.

Question for the Banks fans: is there any need for, or benefit from, reading the Culture books in their published order? Or does it not matter at all?

I typically recommend either Consider Phlebas or Player of Games as starting points, but don't have much to say after that. Excession can be somewhat obtuse and difficult to get through, so I sometimes recommend people read that only after 2-3 other Culture books. You can read almost all of them out of order and it's fine. They are largely self-contained stories, just placed in the same universe. Often there are VERY long periods of time between one book and another. Also, the Culture stories are not all fictionally chronological, so there's little sense in sticking to the published chronology

[Ampoliros]

Has anyone read the Rama series? I read the first while i'm waiting for Use of weapons, and picked up the second, but all the amazon reviews made it out to be as bad as some of KJA's books. So far i'm about 20 pages in and all that has happened is some poorly organized history about what happens between Rama I and II.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Has anyone read the Rama series? I read the first while i'm waiting for Use of weapons, and picked up the second, but all the amazon reviews made it out to be as bad as some of KJA's books. So far i'm about 20 pages in and all that has happened is some poorly organized history about what happens between Rama I and II.

I know, the beginning sucks, keep going - it gets good. Then finish the series, it ends with some fantastically interesting twists and turns. One of my favorite series so far for sure.

I think each of the four books starts off with some really dry re-capping, even the first one didn't it?

[Omphalos]

I loved Rama. Not such a fan of the others.

[The Phantom]

reading "The Left hand of Darkness" right now.. totally getting lost in just the first few chapters.. i think i have to stop reading books at night when i'm really tired and occassionally drunk. it tends to hinder the overall understanding of the book when a few chapters just dont seem to stick in the memory as well as others

[Dune Nerd]

reading "The Left hand of Darkness" right now.. totally getting lost in just the first few chapters.. i think i have to stop reading books at night when i'm really tired and occassionally drunk. it tends to hinder the overall understanding of the book when a few chapters just dont seem to stick in the memory as well as others

I too struggle with the drunk read. I can usually find a nice balance but sometimes the balance means a re-read the next evening.

[The Phantom]

reading "The Left hand of Darkness" right now.. totally getting lost in just the first few chapters.. i think i have to stop reading books at night when i'm really tired and occassionally drunk. it tends to hinder the overall understanding of the book when a few chapters just dont seem to stick in the memory as well as others

I too struggle with the drunk read. I can usually find a nice balance but sometimes the balance means a re-read the next evening.

ya that's what I just did today work party last night and chapters 5-8 just weren't processing.

[Hunchback Jack]

I can only read words when drunk. Not sentences, and certainly not paragraphs, chapters or books.

I read Use of Weapons before any other Culture novels, and it's fine. Ideally, you might read Player of Games first, but you really don't need to.

HBJ

[Mandy]

I'm reading Ilium by Dan Simmons. Pretty good stuff so far.

[Hunchback Jack]

Mandy, that's a fun, fun read. I enjoyed those two books immensely.

I hope you have Olympos waiting on the shelf for when you finish. You'll want it.

HBJ

[SandChigger]

Inner ... struggle ... titanic ... epic ... Goth Girl grabbing keyboard ... Chigger trying to type ... biotch slaps ... pummeling ... can't ... post ... now!

[Ampoliros]

I finished Use of Weapons and started Matter ( I have Consider Phlebus on order) Matter's opening hooked me pretty deep. I think i'd like to go back and read Use of Weapons's chapters in more chronological order...some of it was damn confusing starting off. What was that someone said about bookshelves?

I might have to go back and finish Rama also. Who are some good Clark-esque writers for when i finish him?

I still have to recommend Horus Rising by Dan Abnett. I think if it hadn't been published as a WH40k book it would be in the running for some awards. It was one of the better Sci-fi novels I've read. The rest of the series is good, but that first book was genius in how it discusses the universe and culture.

[Mandy]

Fortunately I do have Olympos! I made the mistake of not having the rest of the Hyperion books a couple months ago, I still haven't finished that series.

I've been reading nonstop since I made that post. I am loving it. Hockenberry just changed everything, I think.

Chigger

[Hunchback Jack]

I'm dividing my time between "American Gods" by Gaiman, and "The Fire" by Neville. Liking them both so far, but not very far into either.

HBJ

[The Phantom]

just finished asimov's Nemesis and now reading he and silverberg's Nightfall.

once that's finished i'll be reading whipping star and dosadi again.

[Liege-Killer]

I made the mistake of not having the rest of the Hyperion books a couple months ago, I still haven't finished that series.

Same here, I still need to get the Endymion books.

[Omphalos]

Just finished City by Simak and picked up Pohl's volume one of the SFWA Grand Master series with Heinlein, Simak, Lieber, Williamson and one other I cant remember right now.

[SandChigger]

Ah, the SFWA again...

[Hunchback Jack]

Yeah, but edited by Pohl. One of the "top 15" guys, IIRC.

HBJ

[Omphalos]

Ah, the SFWA again...

This is grandmaster award, and before the cursed "Sawyer Years."

Actually, I don't know when the SFWA award started sucking, but I associate the suck with him.

[Mandy]

Inner ... struggle ... titanic ... epic ... Goth Girl grabbing keyboard ... Chigger trying to type ... biotch slaps ... pummeling ... can't ... post ... now!

I take it you didn't care for Ilium and Olympos (from what Thing said over at Worm's). I thought Ilium was really funny, and quirky, just plain fun to read, but Olympos is driving me nuts. Did someone hit Simmons with the KJA stick? How many times do I need to be told that Daemon used to be pudgy, or that Orphu is blind (and how it happened), or that one of the moravecs sounds like an actor, or that Harman is old.. not to mention the pages of descriptions I just want to skip over. He didn't leave anything to the imagination! When I start skipping paragraphs or "blah blah blahing" in my head, I know it's bad! Jeesh, I still have a couple hundred pages to go, it better pay off.

[Omphalos]

just finished The Dechronization of Sam Magruder, by George Gaylord Simpson. Ill start a new Mike Resnick novella ( ) tonight, then the brand-spanking new Ted Chiang novella called Exahlation. Cannot wait for that one.

[SandChigger]

What, dat Thang been talkin my shit somewheres agin?



Mandy, oh Mandy! Let me know when you finish ... or give up ... and then I'll commençer (come on say)....


Edit: Hey! You both been talkin' 'bout me! Agh!

Gonna have to have the "Reading is..." talk with that boy again, I see.

I loved Ilium, but hated Olympos.

Oh, OK. Just read Omph's comment, where he sets the record straight. And evidently it should be obvious.

[A Thing of Eternity]

[Mandy]

I'm not giving up! I am skipping at least a paragraph every page, and I know that I'm not missing anything.

[SandChigger]

I was never so happy to finish a book as that one.

I'd already ordered all four Hyperion/Endymion books before starting Olympos, but hadn't started them. Olympos pissed me off so bad I didn't even look at them (or anything else by Simmons) for nearly a year.

The Cantos restored his rep with me, of course. And I quite liked The Terror. Am still eyeing Drood....

[Hunchback Jack]

I'll readily agree that Olympos is a struggle to get through after Ilium. But I enjoyed the series as a whole very much.

Hmm, Drood. I'm tempted but it looks pretty damn long, and I'm not convinced it really needs to be. Simmons is good, but he can be wordy.

Right now, I'm reading The Crow Road by Iain Banks (no M). Haven't read it before. Reminds me of Garbadale (a more recent Banks novel), but I think the writing's a bit more polished in Crow Road.

HBJ

[inhuien]

I read The Crow Road when it just came out years ago, Loved the way he tells the story. It just flows.

[SandChigger]

I grabbed a few "no M" Banks books during last year's spree but haven't read any of them yet. Those titles don't look familiar, either; will check later in office....


I guess if I had to sum up Olympos in one word, it would be ... gratuitous.


(Still on the Miéville, but got bogged down in monstrous parts and Khepri spit. )

[Hunchback Jack]

There are still 3 or 4 "no M" Banks I haven't read yet; they're sitting on my shelf. I've read all the "M" Banks.

I find the "No M" Banks to be a bit more variable than "M" Banks. Not so much in writing quality (although there is a bit of that as well), but just in terms of how much I like them. Some I think are just brilliant, others are just "good". All worth a read, though.

HBJ

[Mandy]

Do you see what I meant about Miéville being a bit wordy? Still.. not nearly as "wordy" as Simmons is in Olympos

[SandChigger]

Yeah. I've actually had to check a few in the dictionary.

I love the world-building, and the fact that I still don't know if the setting is some far-flung, far-future colony world where humans cohabit with aliens or whether the hybrid forms are the result of weird genetic experimentation in the(ir) distant past. Or if it's just a alternate fantasy world.

And probably "bogged down" wasn't the right way to put it above; it's real world stuff that has kinda gotten in the way and I haven't been reading much before bed or on the weekends, not that the book was work or hard going.


I take that back above about the "no M" Banks as well: I haven't read any. I've got three "M" Banks left. Sorry!

The Algebraist, Feersum Endjinn, and Against a Dark Background. Any recommended order for those?


Finally, I don't think I've asked this yet, mainly because it's not SF genre, but is anyone familiar with George Alec Effinger?

[inhuien]

If it was my dollar I'd go for Feersum Endjinn as it's the more not-usual of the three, but only if you dig the somewhat strange style of a few chapters. Second choice ...Dark Background. There's nothing wrong with The Algebraist it's standard Banks fair.

[SandChigger]

Cheers!

[GamePlayer]

I'm a sucker for fictional anthropology, so I love well constructed worlds. Especially sci-fi worlds that introduce me to thoughts or concepts I'd never considered before. Allegorical reference to modern times is interesting, but created concepts I've never seen before is even better. That's why I've a tendency to enjoy Banks sci-fi more than his regular fiction. But both lines of his work are equally well written. The non-sci-fi The Wasp Factory was very well written and astonishingly, it's one of his first works.

[Omphalos]

I'm a sucker for fictional anthropology, so I love well constructed worlds. Especially sci-fi worlds that introduce me to thoughts or concepts I'd never considered before. Allegorical reference to modern times is interesting, but created concepts I've never seen before is even better. That's why I've a tendency to enjoy Banks sci-fi more than his regular fiction. But both lines of his work are equally well written. The non-sci-fi The Wasp Factory was very well written and astonishingly, it's one of his first works.

That one is sitting in my pile, but its been there for years. I keep bumping it for SF. GP, have you ever read Chad Oliver? He does anthropology better than anyone, including LeGuin, IMHO. Zenna Hendersond is great too, but not as great as LeGuin.

[GamePlayer]

The non-sci-fi The Wasp Factory was very well written and astonishingly, it's one of his first works.

That one is sitting in my pile, but its been there for years. I keep bumping it for SF. GP, have you ever read Chad Oliver? He does anthropology better than anyone, including LeGuin, IMHO. Zenna Hendersond is great too, but not as great as LeGuin.

No, I haven't read any Oliver, LeGuin or Hendersond. LeGuin's name keeps popping up a lot, so I should give something of her's a read.

[A Thing of Eternity]

The non-sci-fi The Wasp Factory was very well written and astonishingly, it's one of his first works.

That one is sitting in my pile, but its been there for years. I keep bumping it for SF. GP, have you ever read Chad Oliver? He does anthropology better than anyone, including LeGuin, IMHO. Zenna Hendersond is great too, but not as great as LeGuin.

No, I haven't read any Oliver, LeGuin or Hendersond. LeGuin's name keeps popping up a lot, so I should give something of her's a read.

LeGuin is great. If you like shorts that don't actually have any plot (whatsoever) The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas is good stuff.

[Mandy]

I love Le Guin, The Left Hand of Darkness is one of my favorite books.

I finally finished Olympos, it ended just the way I expected it to. Sad that such a talented writer wrote such a predictable and unsatisfying 800 + page monstrosity. All the book needed was a skillful editor, and it would have been just as enjoyable as Ilium.

[The Phantom]

I love Le Guin, The Left Hand of Darkness is one of my favorite books.

I started it, but had too many late/drunk reading nights and got lost so i quit it for a while.. i'll pick it back up later this year

[Omphalos]

The non-sci-fi The Wasp Factory was very well written and astonishingly, it's one of his first works.

That one is sitting in my pile, but its been there for years. I keep bumping it for SF. GP, have you ever read Chad Oliver? He does anthropology better than anyone, including LeGuin, IMHO. Zenna Hendersond is great too, but not as great as LeGuin.

No, I haven't read any Oliver, LeGuin or Hendersond. LeGuin's name keeps popping up a lot, so I should give something of her's a read.

Oliver and Henderson are obsucure. I think its a crime that they have been forgotten. If you are interested in seeking some I will gladly help. LeGuin you can pretty much find anywhere. If anthropological fiction is your cup of tea, you wont do much better than those three. Mike Resnick's Africa stuff is great too.

Check out my book review site's search page. There are a ton of books listed under the anthropology tag (in "Themes") that may interest you.

[Omphalos]

Just started The Handmaid's Tale last night. Oryx and Crake is next.

[Hunchback Jack]

The Algebraist, Feersum Endjinn, and Against a Dark Background. Any recommended order for those?

They're all completely unrelated to each other, so no specific order is required. I'd agree with inhuien's recommendation.

GP, agree with you about Banks' SF vs. non-SF. Banks seems to write his SF with a bit more gusto, too, if you know what I mean.

For SF Banks fans wanting to read non-SF Banks, I'd recommend Wasp Factory, Walking on Glass, or The Bridge. Mysterious and fascinating stuff.

HBJ

[Omphalos]

I have not heard good things about the Algabraist, except from Ragabash, who is a Banks devotee. I have Feersum Endjinn sitting in my pile.

Anyone up for doing a Feersum Endjinn reading group, either here or at Worm's?

[SandChigger]

How's that work? Read a chapter (or two), discuss, read a chapter, discuss? Might be inneresting.

A Mosque Among the Stars, eds. Ahmed A. Khan & Muhammad Aurangzeb Ahmed, arrived at the house yesterday. I found it advertised on the Islam and Science Fiction website I blogged about at the end of last year (http://islamscifi.com/) and finally got around to ordering it in early February. (Lead story is by Lucius Shepard. I thought there was a complete listing on their site; if I can't find it, I'll list the stories and authors on my blog or here.) --That site is interesting, but they don't include anything with an unfavorable impression of Muslims (Simmons' Hyperion, Olympos, what esle?) No mention of Dune that I can find, either.

And speaking of Olympos ... time to bash it?

Nah. I guess for me, it was the lack of humor that hurt it the most. I laughed aloud countless times reading Ilium; I really, really enjoyed it. And I fell in love with the two moravecs.

Olympos seemed to devolve all too rapidly into one Voynix Slice-n-Dice bloodfest after another. I kept slogging on through the body parts, not enjoying it at all, and wondering what the hell had gone wrong. But it wasn't until Orphu was quietly outing the Trek fans among the mecs on the Queen Mab that I realized what I was missing: the humor.

There were any number of marvels of the imagination in the book (the cable car system, for example), but they just got lost (for me at least) in all the depressing gore. Even the ideas behind the origin of their green Mars and the nasty beasty thing failed to excite ... I just wanted the thing finished and done with. And I wonder, from the way he ended it, if Simmons hadn't come to feel the same way.

I just hope he has enough sense not to attempt the sequel the ending seems to create a potential for....

[Omphalos]

At Worms we usually dont take such a metered approach. Everyone just kind of reads and posts as they go. Conversations develop as people catch up and jump in. Last time, with Blish's A Case of Conscience went pretty well.

[Hunchback Jack]

Sounds interesting. How do avoid spoilers? A separate thread for each chapter?

[Omphalos]

Sounds interesting. How do avoid spoilers? A separate thread for each chapter?

Don't really worry about it too much. Most people read at about the same speed, and if you get to reading a post that is ahead of you, stop or a spoiler will happen.

Here is how the last one went. Its obvious that we all are reading at different paces with this one. Nobody really cared about spoilers, cause most of us were about to get to that point anyway.

http://www.wormsscifi.com/haven/viewtop ... ight=blish

[The Phantom]

Just started The Handmaid's Tale last night. Oryx and Crake is next.

i liked Handmaid's Tale. i'm not a big fan of Atwood as a person and activist, but she's writes pretty well.

[Omphalos]

Ditto. I really like feminist SF stuff though. Good thing there is a ton of it out there.

[Freakzilla]

My step-son turned 12 last week. I asked him what he wanted and he said, "books".

I'm still recovering...

I took him to Borders and told him I'd pick a book and he could pick a book for me to get him. I got him Ender's Game, the big "Author's Definitive Edition" paperback (with the intent to read it when he's done) and he expressed an interest in Mythology so I got him a complilation of Greek, Roman and Norse Myths.

Granny had given him money to buy what he wanted, he used that on books too. He bought a mythology picture book and The Books of The Wars, by Mark Geston. Anyone read it?

I hope Ender's Game isn't over his head.

At least he didn't ask for video games!

[The Phantom]

My step-son turned 12 last week. I asked him what he wanted and he said, "books".

I'm still recovering...

awesome!
i didn't get to that point till about age 17.
then the answer was "clothes and books"

[Freakzilla]

I had a talk with him on the way to the mall about how books can be more entertaining than any game or movie because your imagination will always be better than what someone else puts on the screen and you can get something new with each re-reading... of good books.

I warned him that most of it is trash and not to waste his time on trashy books.

[Omphalos]

Good kid! I think Ender's Game will be fine for a 12 y.o. Especially if you are gonna read it after him, you can talk to him about it.

[SandChigger]

Must be another of those kewl things about having kids.

Correction on something I posted above (must have been leaking braingas): Effinger is SF. D'uh. I take it no one is familiar with him, though?

[Mandy]

I just started Sundiver by David Brin. I've heard good things about The Uplift trilogy, hope it's good.

[Omphalos]

Must be another of those kewl things about having kids.

Correction on something I posted above (must have been leaking braingas): Effinger is SF. D'uh. I take it no one is familiar with him, though?

Sorry Chig, didn't see the question. Ive read a bunch of Effinger. He has the Buyadeen trilogy (aka the Marîd Audran series), which is very much like Blade Runner only with cyberpunk instead of androids. Very good books, though the first is the strongest. They are When Gravity Falls, Fire in the Sun, and The Exile Kiss. There is also a volume of short stories in that universe out only recently from Golden Gryphon Press, called Buyadeen Nights, IIRC. Ive recommended all these before on DN for anyone who loved the Islamic cultural elements of Dune.

He also wrote a short piece called Schrödinger's Kitten that won all kinds of awards, and is very good.

There are a bunch of other novels but I have only read one, What Entropy Means to Me, and I liked it, but it wont get a place on the OBR because its not good enough, IMHO. All the others mentioned here evenutally will. I like what of his short fiction I have read though. Wikipedia says that he was a Clarion graduate and I can believe that.

[Eyes High]

It is cool when kids ask to read books. My 11 year is still fighting the reading stage. The only thing close that he seemed to have enjoyed so far is the Spiderwyke Chronicles.


I have finished Deja Dead by Kathy Reichs and will be returning to Dune.

[Freakzilla]

It totaly caught me off-balance, he's not doing well in school so the last thing I expected was books!

[Freakzilla]

I forgot to mention, I saw Joseph Campbell's Hero of a Thousand Faces just above the Mythology book I picked out, I was realy tempted to get it but I'd spent enough money.

[Omphalos]

It totaly caught me off-balance, he's not doing well in school so the last thing I expected was books!

Might be he's not doing too well in school b/c they are not challenging him enough.

[Freakzilla]

It totaly caught me off-balance, he's not doing well in school so the last thing I expected was books!

Might be he's not doing too well in school b/c they are not challenging him enough.

I hate to say this but, if it was one of my kids I'd say, maybe. It's not that I think he's dumb, he's just lazy. He's no supergenius but he can do the work. He may be bored but I don't think the work is above him. I think part of the problem may be that when we moved, it was for the better schools. Our old babysitter (16, I think) who still goes to the other school said his work is only a couple of years behind her. I think his new school is a couple of years past where he was.

My oldest boy, Jimmy V, (7) is on the A-B honor role! Has been since he's been in school. I'm very proud, if you can't tell.

[SandChigger]

Omph, those are the four I picked up recently for the book pile.

I forget where I came across a reference to him, but it was the Islamic setting & aspects that caught my interest.

[Omphalos]

If you start one any time soon, let me know. We can read at the same time and do a book club thing here if youre interested.

[Hunchback Jack]

The only Effinger I've read is the Maureen Birnbaum short stories. Fun, but hardly hard-core SF .

HBJ

[SandChigger]

If you start one any time soon, let me know. We can read at the same time and do a book club thing here if youre interested.

Oh. I thought we were going to do Feersum Ingenue.

I've gotten back into the Miéville for the moment; probably be slugging away at it through the weekend?

How much ahead of time do we announce what we'll be reading? To give everyone want to take part a chance to get a copy, I mean?

[Omphalos]

If you start one any time soon, let me know. We can read at the same time and do a book club thing here if youre interested.

Oh. I thought we were going to do Feersum Ingenue.

I've gotten back into the Miéville for the moment; probably be slugging away at it through the weekend?

How much ahead of time do we announce what we'll be reading? To give everyone want to take part a chance to get a copy, I mean?

Ive never read any Banks before, so I'd rather start with that one.

I think a week should be enough. We would probably get more participation if we do it at Worms. What do you think? Anybody else want to do it here with us?

[SandChigger]

Worm's should be fine.

Start with Feersum; just name the date.


(By the way, the Hack has posted a blawg called "Reading Shelf", about what he's "reading" now. Shows again how skewed his opinions of other writers' works are. )

[Omphalos]

Worm's should be fine.

Start with Feersum; just name the date.


(By the way, the Hack has posted a blawg called "Reading Shelf", about what he's "reading" now. Shows again how skewed his opinions of other writers' works are. )

Sounds good to me.

[Had to send Worm a PM to give me mod status over there for that thread - can't start a topic unless I am one. Will post invitation there for everyone after that. Let's start in a bit over a week, so anyone who wants to join us can get a copy too?]

[SandChigger]

Okey-dokey.

[Ampoliros]

Has anyone read Stackpole's Age of Discovery series? I was looking through Sci-Fi today and saw it. It caught my attention because it looks very similar to KJA's new Terra Incognita.

I was thinking maybe KJA was looking for a little revenge since Stackpole's I, Jedi upstaged and corrected KJA's Jedi Acrapamy Trilogy. (It's the only Star Wards EU book to reiterate events in another EU Book, and is generally considered to be much superiour to Jedi Academy.)

[Hunchback Jack]

(By the way, the Hack has posted a blawg called "Reading Shelf", about what he's "reading" now. Shows again how skewed his opinions of other writers' works are. )

"I have been a fan of Orson Scott Card since his first stories appeared in Omni magazine."

Translation: I was a fan of OSC before you were. *You* only started liking OSC because he won that Hugo. I'm such a fucking legend.

"[I, Robot] was definitely a genre-changing book in its time, but I’m afraid it feels very dated now."

Translation: Why didn't Asimov have his robots kill anyone or blow anything up? Seems like a wasted opportunity to me.

HBJ

[SandChigger]

Ah, that's much better than what I came up with ("You'll never change the genre, Kevvie!").

And I first read OSC in Omni as well. So the little geek farm punk from Wisconsin ain't got nuttin' on me.

(Pity he didn't stay there, shtuppin' da sheep. )

[GamePlayer]

"I have been a fan of Orson Scott Card since his first stories appeared in Omni magazine."

Translation: I was a fan of OSC before you were. *You* only started liking OSC because he won that Hugo. I'm such a fucking legend.

"[I, Robot] was definitely a genre-changing book in its time, but I’m afraid it feels very dated now."

Translation: Why didn't Asimov have his robots kill anyone or blow anything up? Seems like a wasted opportunity to me.

HBJ

LOL! I love those. They are both so good, it's hard to pick a favorite

[Omphalos]

(By the way, the Hack has posted a blawg called "Reading Shelf", about what he's "reading" now. Shows again how skewed his opinions of other writers' works are. )

"I have been a fan of Orson Scott Card since his first stories appeared in Omni magazine."

Translation: I was a fan of OSC before you were. *You* only started liking OSC because he won that Hugo. I'm such a fucking legend.

"[I, Robot] was definitely a genre-changing book in its time, but I’m afraid it feels very dated now."

Translation: Why didn't Asimov have his robots kill anyone or blow anything up? Seems like a wasted opportunity to me.

HBJ

Looks like ole' Kevvie is trying to sharpen his critical teeth before that big nebula gig, huh? Good luck, toad!

[Freakzilla]

He shouldn't be allowed to read books of a higher quality than those he writes.

[Omphalos]

He shouldn't be allowed to read books of a higher quality than those he writes.

Trust me. Being a critic ain't hard.

[Hunchback Jack]

Don't sell yourself short, Omph. Your reviews rock - and not just because I agree with most of them .

What is difficult is reading I, Robot and not understanding what the hell you're reading. Or writing a review of I, Robot without showing a bit of fucking respect for the author.

(Oh, and thanks, GP).

HBJ

[Omphalos]

Aaaaah. Thanks.

[Seraphan]

Can any of you recomend a few good fantasy books? Yes, those with swords, magic, yada yada yada, because since The Lord of the Rings i havent read any that had good characterization and none of the typical clichés.

[Omphalos]

Can any of you recomend a few good fantasy books? Yes, those with swords, magic, yada yada yada, because since The Lord of the Rings i havent read any that had good characterization and none of the typical clichés.

No such thing.

[Eyes High]

Can any of you recomend a few good fantasy books? Yes, those with swords, magic, yada yada yada, because since The Lord of the Rings i havent read any that had good characterization and none of the typical clichés.

Yes, I can. Almost anything by Anne MacCafrey. Especially the Dragon Riders of Pern series. (Which the Dragon Riders do involve some Sci-Fi, if one stops to think about it because the Dragons were bio-enhanced to get as big as they are.)

There is also... The Death Gate Novels by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman. It's been a long time since I've read any of those but from what I recalled they were nice.

Oh, and also Spiff liked the Redwall series but I can't remember who they are by and he's not home right now.

[Mandy]

Can any of you recomend a few good fantasy books? Yes, those with swords, magic, yada yada yada, because since The Lord of the Rings i havent read any that had good characterization and none of the typical clichés.

A Song of Ice and Fire series, by George R. R. Martin is the best fantasy I've ever read. It's not cute, or silly, and there's hardly any magic. Lots of blood, guts, and sex. The first book in the series is called A Game of Thrones, I promise you will be hooked. My dad hates fantasy, but I sent him the first 4 books anyway, and he loved them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Song_of_Ice_and_Fire

[Himachil]

I;ve got an anti-recommendation:

I've been listening to an audiobook of Terry Brooks The Sword of Shannara at work recently - partly because Frank Herbert seemed to say it was ok... but it's grinding me down. -

I've gotten to the point where not-Gandalf (yes it is a little bit like LOTR) falls to his death. I reckon he's not actually dead... In fact I will give everyone on this forum £1,000 if he is actually dead . It holds it's own in places, but I'm not feeling it as a whole so far. It's a bit shit.


btw anyone know if it's worth slogging on?

[Seraphan]

Eyes High and Mandy, many thanks for the recomendations and will try to check them out as soon as possible. Thanks once again

[Mandy]

Oh, I read The Death Gate Cycle a long, long time ago. I remember enjoying them a lot.

I'm reading The Atrocity Archives, by Charles Stross. It's hilarious, and weird.

[Eyes High]

Found out the author for the Redwall series is Brian Jaques.

[Omphalos]

Just started reading Barry N. Maltzberg's Breakfast in the Ruins. Very, very good so far.

[Hunchback Jack]

You could try "Mordant's Need" by Donaldson. Vaguely medieval setting with swords and magic, but some pretty original ideas and a cool story. A lot of people don't like Donaldson's prose, though, so be warned - it may not be your cup of tea.

HBJ

[A Thing of Eternity]

Can any of you recomend a few good fantasy books? Yes, those with swords, magic, yada yada yada, because since The Lord of the Rings i havent read any that had good characterization and none of the typical clichés.

Tad Williams, both his Memory Sorrow and Thorn series (looooooong but amazing) and his new Shadow series (long and not finished yet)

Can any of you recomend a few good fantasy books? Yes, those with swords, magic, yada yada yada, because since The Lord of the Rings i havent read any that had good characterization and none of the typical clichés.

Yes, I can. Almost anything by Anne MacCafrey. Especially the Dragon Riders of Pern series. (Which the Dragon Riders do involve some Sci-Fi, if one stops to think about it because the Dragons were bio-enhanced to get as big as they are.)

I would actually say that the Pern books are 100% SF (though far fetched, but there is plenty of far fetched SF out there... sometimes the line gets pretty blurry). I loved these as a kid and teen, haven't read any in quite a few years though.

There is also... The Death Gate Novels by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman. It's been a long time since I've read any of those but from what I recalled they were nice.

This is one of my all time favorite fantasy series. I'm blown away that the same people who invented DragonLance came up with something this good.

[Mandy]

Worm's should be fine.

Start with Feersum; just name the date.


(By the way, the Hack has posted a blawg called "Reading Shelf", about what he's "reading" now. Shows again how skewed his opinions of other writers' works are. )

Sounds good to me.

[Had to send Worm a PM to give me mod status over there for that thread - can't start a topic unless I am one. Will post invitation there for everyone after that. Let's start in a bit over a week, so anyone who wants to join us can get a copy too?]

Worm is swamped at work, so I handled that for you. Get started whenever you're ready.

[Omphalos]

Worm's should be fine.

Start with Feersum; just name the date.


(By the way, the Hack has posted a blawg called "Reading Shelf", about what he's "reading" now. Shows again how skewed his opinions of other writers' works are. )

Sounds good to me.

[Had to send Worm a PM to give me mod status over there for that thread - can't start a topic unless I am one. Will post invitation there for everyone after that. Let's start in a bit over a week, so anyone who wants to join us can get a copy too?]

Worm is swamped at work, so I handled that for you. Get started whenever you're ready.

Thankee-Sai. Im off on a trip to work this second, so Ill start a post when I get settled up there in Washington.

Good thing for him to be swamped, the way things are going these days.

[SandChigger]

Thanks, Mandy.

Gotta look for my password to Worm's now...

[Mandy]

http://wormsscifi.com/haven/viewtopic.php?t=4988

Hi all,

Sandchigger and I are going to do a book club reading of Ian M. Banks' novel Feersum Endjinn. Id like to start on Monday the 13th, so as to give everyone who needs to order it time to get a copy from Amazon.

For those of you who have it, please don't get started in making comments without the rest of us. I have it, but not everyone does. Ill start the first post on Monday. If you guys want to start before Monday, just post here so we can see what the general feeling is.

I'd like to do this the way that we did A Case of Conscience; with everyone reading at their own speed, jumping into and out of the conversation as they best see fit. There will of course be some spoilage, but I think its really artificial to have everyone read two chapters, or something, then come back and post, and then read the next assignment. For those of you who do not read quickly, this is your chance to jump the gun and get ahead. Maybe that way everyone will finish at about the same time.

Im off on business til Thursday. Ill see you all then. Actually, I gotta go now, so would someone please paste this into Jacurutu and T(A)U?

Thanks,

Omph

Chig, the "forgot your password" thing should work as long as your email address is valid. Also, I talked Worm into installing subsilver for those of us on slow connections, or if you just hate the xbox theme.

[SandChigger]

All OK. I did the reset password thingy, thanks!

[The Phantom]

just put a copy on order at the library.
I'll have plenty of free time for reading in the near future./

[Mandy]

Worm is back, so if anyone is having problems registering let me know. One of my friends couldn't get the captcha thingy to work yesterday.

[inhuien]

Just dusted off Pratchett's Making Money, like a few of his books it started very well but fell a little flat by about the 3/4 mark. Banks Inversions is next and I'm really looking forward to it, cause, well I best not say. i don't want to give away a spoilers.

[Hunchback Jack]

Yeah, Inversions is a good one.

HBJ,
avoiding another "Banks is God" rant.

[Ragabash]

Yeah, Inversions is a good one.

HBJ,
avoiding another "Banks is God" rant.

I couldn't agree more with your unspoken rant

My GF found a copy of Against a Dark Background for me the other day on paperback swap; I can't wait to re-read it

[Seraphan]

Yeah, Inversions is a good one.

HBJ,
avoiding another "Banks is God" rant.

Then since you love Ian M. Banks, here, my treat:
Interview part 1:
http://www.viewfromheremagazine.com/200 ... -of-2.html
Interview part 2:
http://www.viewfromheremagazine.com/200 ... -of-2.html

One of the bonuses of these interviews is that, in some way or another, it makes KJA look like a complete moronic ape.

[Liege-Killer]

One of the bonuses of these interviews is that, in some way or another, it makes KJA look like a complete moronic ape.

Let's give credit where it's due: KJA can do that all by himself!

[Mandy]

It's the one thing he's really good at, lol.

[Robspierre]

Halfway through Anathem. Holy shit that is one massive book! Mind bending in a way that just makes you drool. The sheer volume of date Stephenson is giving you is mind boggling, and you can set it down and pick it up days later and not be lost, fucking brilliant, so skillfully written and engaging, best fucking book I've read in a long while!

Rob

[A Thing of Eternity]

Well, I have a pile of books to choose from (and I just finished a really good detective novel for school by Jonathon Lethem called Motherless Brooklyn, which I'd highly recommend to anyone who can stomach books without spaceships It's very noir and the main charracter/narrator has tourettes syndrome, good times all round). I've finaly started to round up books by classic authors I've read little or nothing of up to this point so that I can flesh out my SF experience, while still getting some stuff I'm more familiar with.

I can't pick which one to start reading...

Kurt Vonnegut Slaughterhouse-Five - I've never read anything by him

or

Iain M. Banks Matter - I've read a fair bit

or

Ursula K. Le Guin The Left Hand of Darkness - I've only ever read some of her short fiction

or

Orson Scott Card Treason - I've never read anything by him


Anyone care to suggest a starting point?
Too many options is a nice predicament to be in.

[Omphalos]

Vonnegut. Start with Vonnegut, then go to LeGuin, then Banks and finish up with Card, unless something good comes along.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I heard the Vonnegut was pretty good. I actually saw one of his books recently in one of my classmate's pile of textbooks and asked them about it, they had no idea he was an SF writer, I guess that book was a philosophy/anti religion book that was required reading for one of her classes... kinda renewed my interest in the guy's writing.

[Omphalos]

I heard the Vonnegut was pretty good. I actually saw one of his books recently in one of my classmate's pile of textbooks and asked them about it, they had no idea he was an SF writer, I guess that book was a philosophy/anti religion book that was required reading for one of her classes... kinda renewed my interest in the guy's writing.

Vonnegut did all that he could during the ascendency and highpoint of his career to distinguish his writing from SF. He felt that it was way too limiting becasue of the editorial practices and the common view that SF was for a certain market of people, all of whom had something wrong with them. He developed in a cabal of SF writers though that included Wm. Tenn, Theodore Sturgoen and Robert Shekeley, and others. As a matter of fact, the name of one of his greatest recurring characters, Kilgore Trout, a down-on-his-luck SF author, was modeled after Theodore Sturgeon.

Many, if not all, of his books make use of SF themes, but more in the way of other mainstream writers who loot the genre for ideas and dont look back, though not as bad as most.

[The Phantom]

Treason was ok. not one of my favourite standalone's from Card. The worthing saga was good IMHO.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Treason was ok. not one of my favourite standalone's from Card. The worthing saga was good IMHO.

I saw it used somewhere for cheap and grabbed it, otherwise I would have started with Ender's Game.

[Omphalos]

Feersum Endjinn, by Banks
The Caves of Steel, by Asimov
The SF of Mark Clifton (I can already tell that this collection is going to get five stars with a bullet and Clifton is going to be one of my favorite authors)
In Search of Wonder, by Damon Knight

[The Phantom]

Treason was ok. not one of my favourite standalone's from Card. The worthing saga was good IMHO.

I saw it used somewhere for cheap and grabbed it, otherwise I would have started with Ender's Game.

a few other standalones of his that i liked were lovelock, pastwatch, and wyrms.
i stayed away from his overtly religious stuff, (except the Homecoming series which is great if you ignore the fact that it's a reimagining of the book of mormon), and most of his new books are crap (empire was painful TBH)

[Phaedrus]

Still working my way through Consider Phlebas...finding myself more and more annoyed with the action sequences, and wishing there were more of the Culture characters.

I'm about halfway through a reread of Chapterhouse, after I picked up a nice hardcover copy at a used book store on the cheap.

Haven't read much scifi in my offtime from here, other than a few Vonnegut books and the occasional online short story.

On the discussion about Card...the older I get, the more I find Card annoying and immature.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Still working my way through Consider Phlebas...finding myself more and more annoyed with the action sequences, and wishing there were more of the Culture characters.

This your first Banks novel? I just ask because it was my first, and I was reaaaallly underwhelmed by it. Everything I've read after that has been PURE masterpiece though.

[Phaedrus]

Yeah. It's not bad so far, just not outstanding.

[Mandy]

Just finished The Fall of Hyperion, probably start Endymion sometime today.

[Omphalos]

In the middle of China Mountain Zhang by Maureen McHugh. Excellent book. And CL, its another one that has a gay protagonist. You were wondering about any SF books that dealt with homosexuality a long time ago, IIRC, and this is a really, really well written one. Beautifully written, it seems.

[Mandy]

I am getting close to the end of Endymion. I really love Simmons' universe, his characters, and the story in general, but the way he writes is sometimes extremely frustrating. It's like every chapter ends on a cliffhanger, and you think something will be resolved when he gets back to that group of characters, but he ends up describing someone's clothes or surroundings for three of four pages and the cliffhanger still doesn't get resolved until the next chapter.

[SandChigger]

Must be the Colorado Writers Cliffhanger Syndrome?

[Robspierre]

About 780 pages into Anathem, great stuff. I love that I can read it and put it down and a couple of days later pick up where I left off and not need to go back and refresh my memory.

Rob

[SandChigger]

Isn't it funny how we usually cite that as a demerit of the McDune books?

[Omphalos]

Personally I have a mental block about books that big, no matter who wrote them.

[GamePlayer]

No Count of Monte Cristo or Ulysses for you huh?

[Omphalos]

No Count of Monte Cristo or Ulysses for you huh?

Actually I loved Ulysses. Never read the Count of Monte Cristo. When I made that comment I was referring to new books. I judge classics with a different standard. Actually, I can't get into really, really long character driven novels. With novels of ideas long ones are OK.

[Robspierre]

No Count of Monte Cristo or Ulysses for you huh?

Actually I loved Ulysses. Never read the Count of Monte Cristo. When I made that comment I was referring to new books. I judge classics with a different standard. Actually, I can't get into really, really long character driven novels. With novels of ideas long ones are OK.

Anathem is all ideas. The characters are fairly flimsy but with more personality than the typical KJA character. Stephenson is overloading you with data and does a damn good job of it. The first fifty pages are tough, I started over twice, but after that it zooms along.

Rob

[Mandy]

I started The Rise of Endymion yesterday. Looks like this one is going to be annoying in the same way as Endymion, so far most of the chapters end with cliffhangers, and Simmons finds it necessary to describe everything in detail repeatedly. Maybe I should have waited a month or two before diving into this last book.

[SandChigger]

While I liked all the books, I did enjoy the last two less than the first. Such is life....

[Mandy]

I just can't wait to find out what happens to the characters!

[SandChigger]

You're so bad.

[Ragabash]

I just finished Rocannon's World (LeGuin). I am utterly blown away. It was like reading fine literature of the period in which it was set. What a satisfying, brutal and true ending. It's the first part of a book I got at a library sale called Three Hainish Novels. I can't wait to read the rest.

[The Phantom]

I just finished Rocannon's World (LeGuin). I am utterly blown away. It was like reading fine literature of the period in which it was set. What a satisfying, brutal and true ending. It's the first part of a book I got at a library sale called Three Hainish Novels. I can't wait to read the rest.

I bought Rocannon's World a while back but haven't been able to find the other two in the trilogy. I'm holding off reading it until I can read them all in sequence. Can't wait

[Ragabash]

I bought Rocannon's World a while back but haven't been able to find the other two in the trilogy. I'm holding off reading it until I can read them all in sequence. Can't wait

This renews my interest in reading her stuff. I wanted to a few years back, but got distracted by shiny objects and bits of string.

[The Phantom]

I bought Rocannon's World a while back but haven't been able to find the other two in the trilogy. I'm holding off reading it until I can read them all in sequence. Can't wait

This renews my interest in reading her stuff. I wanted to a few years back, but got distracted by shiny objects and bits of string.

i started reading the Left Hand of Darkness but read too much of it while half asleep before bed so i got really lost really quickly... I'm gonna wait till after the trilogy to re-try it

[SandChigger]

I got Three Hainish Novels years ago when I first joined SFBC. Reread it a few summers back during the trip home. Still good.

[Omphalos]

I just finished Rocannon's World (LeGuin). I am utterly blown away. It was like reading fine literature of the period in which it was set. What a satisfying, brutal and true ending. It's the first part of a book I got at a library sale called Three Hainish Novels. I can't wait to read the rest.

I read all three of those again recently. I still have about six other LeGuin n ovels sitting in the pile, but they are like twenty books down. Not enough time. I gotta retire I think.

[Ragabash]

Her style of writing reminds me strongly of Gene Wolfe, who I also adore. I am definitely going to read more.

[Omphalos]

I am not such a great fan of Gene Wolfe. I like some of his stuff. Others not so much.

[Liege-Killer]

I just finished Rocannon's World (LeGuin). I am utterly blown away.

Actually, I'd have to say that's my least favorite of all the Hainish novels. Not that it's bad, I'm not saying that. Just that all the others are better.

Her style of writing reminds me strongly of Gene Wolfe, who I also adore.

I've never read anything of his, but I do have his Book of the New Sun in the pile.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I started working on Sluaghterhouse 5 (sorry spelling, drin,k) a couple weeks ago, got t page 51 and put it down. Didn't really consciously decide to stop, I just lost interest. I'm sure it'll bea good book,not really SF yet though.

[Robspierre]

Finished Anathem. Wonderful book and one of the better endings I've read from Stephenson. Working on The Comfort of Strangers by Ian McEwan.

Rob

[Dune Nerd]

Just finished Ringworld Engineers and I am starting on The Anansi Boys. Niven does a good job in that book (and the first) but I think I will wait to read the last one, I have heard it is not as enjoyable.

I am reading Anansi for the first time, I picked it up at the same time as American Gods (when Waldenbooks went out of business they had all books on 50% off, we stocked up on waaaay too many books), and really enjoyed that one so I am hoping this one is as good.

I love being finished with school for the summer, I get to read what I want to read again.

[Mandy]

I loved Anansi Boys.

[Omphalos]

Just finished Ringworld Engineers and I am starting on The Anansi Boys. Niven does a good job in that book (and the first) but I think I will wait to read the last one, I have heard it is not as enjoyable.

I am reading Anansi for the first time, I picked it up at the same time as American Gods (when Waldenbooks went out of business they had all books on 50% off, we stocked up on waaaay too many books), and really enjoyed that one so I am hoping this one is as good.

I love being finished with school for the summer, I get to read what I want to read again.

There are two, maybe three Rignworld books after Engineers. I read the next two and absolutely hated them both.

[SandChigger]

One of them is called Throne of Ringworld or something like that, right? I think I read that one ... but couldn't tell you anything about it at the moment. So much for memorable, huh?

I quite enjoyed Anansi Boys, too. IIRC it had me laughing out loud at several points.

[Omphalos]

Ringworld Throne and Ringworld Children. Both sucked soiled ass.

[Dune Nerd]

Those were the same sentiments I had heard about those, so I pass.

[Himachil]

I started working on Sluaghterhouse 5 (sorry spelling, drin,k) a couple weeks ago, got t page 51 and put it down. Didn't really consciously decide to stop, I just lost interest. I'm sure it'll bea good book,not really SF yet though.

Slaughterhouse is a fantastic book: stick with it - but I'm not entirely sure that it is actually SF - although it blatantly uses SF motifs.

I'm back on Dune now - after taking a couple of months out to read Watchmen, then getting sidetracked by some Sturgeon short stories and a book on Strategy by Captain Liddell Hart...

[Freakzilla]

I couldn't make it through Ringworld.

[Dune Nerd]

I couldn't make it through Ringworld.

I liked it but I have a buddy that claims it is too technical for him (or something to that effect). What was it that you did not like?

[Freakzilla]

I couldn't make it through Ringworld.

I liked it but I have a buddy that claims it is too technical for him (or something to that effect). What was it that you did not like?

I just got kind of bored, I guess. I followed the technobabble well enough. I got to the part where they were flying over the ring and haven't had the desire to pick it up again.

[GamePlayer]

Ringworld was fascinating conceptually but rather dry dramatically. It doesn't really get compelling until the end of the book. I never had any interest in reading the ones that followed.

[Omphalos]

Niven's not the best novelist on his own. He's usually dynamite when he and Pournelle and/or Barnes are working together, but generally speaking I prefer his short stories. Ringworld, though, I personally loved. I read it at a very young age when I was just getting into SF, and if fit my prejudiced view of what SF should be very well. I still love it to this day. I used daydream all the time about going to the Ringworld when I was a kid.

[Mandy]

I started reading Cat's Cradle this morning. I somehow missed out on Vonnegut when I was growing up. This is a used copy and there are passages highlighted here and there, I assume it belonged to a student. I can't figure out why anyone would highlight the passages that are highlighted, though. I've been trying to figure out what questions they could be answering

[SandChigger]

Catching up...

Forgot to mention when I finished Perdido Stree Station. I quite liked it and the weird turn it took; the end was satisfying. I've got three more Mieville books on the pile now.

Finished Feersum Endjinn; will drop by Worm's later this evening to see where everyone else is.

Started reading that A Mosque among the Stars collection I mentioned getting a while back. The first story was Lucius Shepard's "A Walk in the Garden". Military weird set in a future occupied Iraq; disturbing but interesting, got me briefly back into an Old Man's War frame of mind. Trang might likey?

(Actually, it's online here, if anyone's interested: http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/origina ... ard61.html)

After that, I think I'll hit Effinger's When Gravity Fails before diving back into the next Mieville New Crobuzon book.

(I've been in kind of a Muslim/Arabic mood again lately. Downloaded some tunes and been allahuwakbarging up and down the road this week. )

[Omphalos]

Ive been stuck in a rut lately. Ive been reading a lot of criticism and biographies to get over it. Hasnt happened yet.

[Robspierre]

Little Stranger by Sarah Waters. After her Victorian Lesbian Trilogy( Tipping the Velvet, Affinity, Fingersmith) she has branched out post war Britain in her last two works, The Night Watch & Little Stranger. Wonderful stuff.

Rob

[Freakzilla]

Ive been stuck in a rut lately. Ive been reading a lot of criticism and biographies to get over it. Hasnt happened yet.

I emailed you the Pliocene Exiles series by Julian May. Four novels in .lit format (MS Reader), if you can stand it.

[Dune Nerd]

Finished Anansi Boys, what a fun book. Really enjoyed it. Shifting gears and trying to start on a Game of Thrones, not really into fantasy but trying it out anyway. Maybe 50 pages in and already thinking of switching to a different book.

[Omphalos]

Ive been stuck in a rut lately. Ive been reading a lot of criticism and biographies to get over it. Hasnt happened yet.

I emailed you the Pliocene Exiles series by Julian May. Four novels in .lit format (MS Reader), if you can stand it.

Couldnt open them. Based on your recommendations Ive been meaning to get them anyway.

[The Phantom]

after it'd been mentioned in conversation, I put the Chrysalids (Wyndham) on hold at the library. Just picked it up yesterday and got that started. I'm finding I like Wyndham's narrative style a lot.

[SandChigger]

"Critical darling" level?

[Omphalos]

Yes, actually.

[Freakzilla]

Ive been stuck in a rut lately. Ive been reading a lot of criticism and biographies to get over it. Hasnt happened yet.

I emailed you the Pliocene Exiles series by Julian May. Four novels in .lit format (MS Reader), if you can stand it.

Couldnt open them. Based on your recommendations Ive been meaning to get them anyway.

You have to download MS Reader. Don't bother though, I read a few chapters in the first book and the typos are awefull, even by my standards. I usually don't much mind if it's a free ebook, but damn. That series is out of print, I believe. Snatch 'em up if you see them.

[Omphalos]

Ive been stuck in a rut lately. Ive been reading a lot of criticism and biographies to get over it. Hasnt happened yet.

I emailed you the Pliocene Exiles series by Julian May. Four novels in .lit format (MS Reader), if you can stand it.

Couldnt open them. Based on your recommendations Ive been meaning to get them anyway.

You have to download MS Reader. Don't bother though, I read a few chapters in the first book and the typos are awefull, even by my standards. I usually don't much mind if it's a free ebook, but damn. That series is out of print, I believe. Snatch 'em up if you see them.

You can get them all pretty easily at the Amazon used book market.

[Mandy]

Started The Left Hand of Darkness this morning. I thought it was time to read it again, I'm sure I missed some of the important stuff the first time.

[SandChigger]

Anyone familiar with a writer named Jetse de Vries?

Evidently was at Interzone for about four years and then left last year under slightly mysterious circumstances, citing differences with the other (three?) editors with regard to the direction of the fiction they would be publishing over the next year.

Anyway, I'm in the middle of a story of his included in that Mosque Among the Stars anthology, and it's just awful. (Unfortunately only two out of the four or five stories I've read so far have been any good.) The bad writing isn't helped by some really spotty editorial work (misspellings, weird typographical/punctuation stuff like using two hyphens for a dash, etc). And the story is about time travel and travel between alternate timelines/possible worlds, which has to be really well done to stave off the spastic spheencter flutters on my part.

I was thinking about doing a review of this anthology on my blog when I finish reading it ... but now I'm not so sure, if I'm not going to have much nice to say about it.

Monday morning edit: Finished the de Vries short story ("Cultural Clashes in Cadiz", in case anyone's interested) last night before watching 10,000 B.C. (stupendously BAD; knew it would be, but was hoping for some action. Feh) and There Will Be Blood (Fantastic!). Was bad to the end, the "message" left me cold, did nothing to dispose me more favorably to time travel tales in general.

The next story is called a fantasy by the editor who wrote the pre-story blurbs. Oh dear....

[SandChigger]

Still plodding along.

Read the fantasy, "Servant of Iblis" by Howard Jones, yesterday morning before crawling out of the futon; read "The Weight of Space and Metal" by Camille Alexa after crawling back in last night.

Both were well written and I liked them, but the aftertaste of the story by Alexa is less pleasant. It was the first of the stories written for the collection. To spoil it: It's about a four-member mission to Mars, the first to include a woman, who is the first-person narrator. One of the men is a Muslim (gentle, soft-spoken, devout, writes moving poetry) and he and the woman become close, but don't have sex, although the other two men assume they are; one of them becomes quite jealous. Right before they leave Mars, the Muslim dies in an accident outside ... with it left open as to whether the other jealous guy sabotaged his suit.

The purpose of the collection is to show Muslims and Islam in a more positive light than is common in the media. While I enjoyed the story during the reading, afterwards the story events just seemed too pat.

Five more to go...

Added: Oh yeah, in a strange development, the website of the publisher of the book seems to have disappeared since a day or two ago: www.zcbooks.ca. Weird....

[Omphalos]

Too bad it doesn't sound good. I would like to read a good anthology on Islam in SF. That last story does not sound like fantasy. I like themed anthologies like that (I'm reading one right now on criminal justice in SF), but when they take a repressed or despised group and "show (them) in a more positive light than is common in the media, they often sound contrived and come off as panderers. What they need to do is show them in a more human light; to humanize them. Put a human face on them if you will. Not glorify them.

Here are some pages I found on de Vries.

[SandChigger]

Sorry if that was confusing, "Servant of Iblis" is the pure fantasy one. The one by Alexa (Mars mission) was science fiction, no question. (There's one more story about a sailing ship carrying slaves to the New World; not sure if it's going to be horror or science fiction, but vengeful ghosts are mentioned in the blurb, so I'm betting on the former.)

The story by one of the editors, Ahmed A. Khan, isn't really science fiction, either. At least not in any sense I can make sense of. It's about an Indian guy whose wife has moved back to her parents' after a fight and who wakes up one morning with a vague premonition that something is wrong (besides the obvious marital stuff). A friend sees him acting a bit odd and gets together with another friend (a doctor and the Muslim in the piece) to do an intervention ... right after the guy gets a call from his mother that his father is in the hospital for emergency surgery, causing him to miss the only flight that would have gotten him to his parents' town that day. They later find out that the plane he would have taken crashed, killing all aboard. With his new lease on life, as it were, he goes to get his wife and she comes home with him and they indulge in some after-fight sex (what's the funny name for that again?) and make their first baby.

Looks like I'm doing the reviews here, huh?!

What really bothered me about that one (besides the lack of anything really scifi-y) was the abrupt change in language at the very end. Throughout it was rather stiffly formal-ish, and then suddenly you're bludgeoned with "fuck" and "copulation". I assume (hope) the effect was intentional, but it left me wondering ... WHY?!

I really wanted to like this collection, but I kinda feel they should go for something more balanced, especially on their website, and cover everything rather than just the positive stuff. There's absolutely no mention of Dune there, of the Effinger books, of Dan Simmons' rather critical references to Islam and Muslims in his Hyperion and Ilium/Olympos books, etc. Oh well.

(I found de Vries' blog, btw. Meh.)

[Omphalos]

I would love to hear your thoughts on some linguistics-themed SF. I promise not to mention the dreaded "E" word, even if you do.

[Freakzilla]

...they indulge in some after-fight sex (what's the funny name for that again?) and make their first baby.

Make-up sex?

[SandChigger]

...they indulge in some after-fight sex (what's the funny name for that again?) and make their first baby.

Make-up sex?

Hmm ... maybe that's it ... but I was thinking there was some really funny term for it....

Separation from the linguistic herd is adversely affecting me. (sniff)



"E" word, Omph? You mean ... EBONICS?! NO!!! NOT AGAIN!!! AAAAAAH! AAAAAH! AAAAAAAAAAH!!!

What specifically did you have in mind? I don't think I've read most of the biggies, like The Languages of Pao ... which sounds a bit preachy, from what I've read about it....

[Omphalos]

I was thinking there was some really funny term for it....

If you are still pissed it can be a hate-fuck.

What specifically did you have in mind? I don't think I've read most of the biggies, like The Languages of Pao ... which sounds a bit preachy, from what I've read about it....

Here is a start, if you really need one. Personally I think that Story of your Life is one of the best linguistics story I have ever read, and I also suspect that it would be rather transparent to a linguist's analysis.

The Ballad of Beta-2 and Babel-17 would be excellent for you to tear apart too.

Pao, even if you do find it preechy, will give you plenty to talk about.

Sheila Finch has put out a bunch of stories about a "Xenolinguist's Guild" too, and while I have not read them, I hear that they don't miss the mark much. I'd personally like to hear why, because I doubt I would be able to articulate it myself.

China Mountain Zhang is relatively new and is set in a world dominated by China. Ive heard you say before that you believe that there is a lot of truth in that motif. Its also about the life of a gay A.B.C. man, and I suspect you would also appreciate a realistic story about a character with those traits that never descends into stereotypes. It also has a lot in it about how Chinese will seep into other languages.

Persistence of Vision is about non-verbal communication. I personally love that story and would appreciate a linguist's take on it.

I'm also working on a review of Nineteen Eighty-Four as we type. That's one of the grand-daddies, and it even has an appendix on the linguistics issues in it.

Have you got Alien and Linguistics yet?

[Robspierre]

Broke down and got a library card at the local library ( Cloudcroft). HOOOO boy do they have a tiny collection. Not a whole lot I am interested in but enough to grab a book or audiobook now and then. They do have all six of Frank's Dune work, including a copy of the Illustrated Dune. No sign of the hack twins at all! I think i will end up using interlibrary loan down the road a bit.

I did pick up

Ivanhoe
The Handmaid's Tale
The Lovely Bones Audiobook

Rob

[SandChigger]

OK, first things first:

Mosque bitching: I read the three shorter of the remaining five stories last night and this morning. Damn. If it's not another bint mooning over a dreamy dark Muslim man she can't have (at least not immediately), then it's a future Muslim American in space fuming over how his relatives have been killed by separatist "Christianists" and doing a Second Contact with an alien race whose religion is just Islam for Big-Eyed Multi-limbed Artoogans. Or a really strained "humor" piece that made me wonder why the author bothered.

And I'm sorry to say, the editing is shit. Most of the dialog lines had a space after the final punctuation, causing the end quotation marks to revert to initial quotes (curled the wrong way). And there were some really weird grammatical errors in the Muslim rage/Second Contact one. (The writing was pretty bad overall, so I'm not sure how to allot the blame between the author and the editors.) Very, very disappointing. (I'm going to show the book to Teg the next time we get together and get his opinion on the printing/binding job, too.)

I've got two stories left, the one with the slave ship with ghosts (or maybe djinn? Yeah, I peeked a bit), about 20 pages, and a 50-page-or-so novella by Thomas Ligon about a starship hijacking.

OK, next... Hate-fuck? That's a new one.

Let's see. I actually got the Finch "Xenolinguists" book back at the beginning of April, but haven't looked through it yet. I've had China Mountain Zhang in my cart since you mentioned it here, Omph. I'll put Pao, The Ballad of Beta-2 and Babel-17 in there, too.

I've had Meyers' Aliens and Linguists for ages, but still haven't gotten into it other than spot browsing here and there. (I think I got it before you did, no? )

I think I posted a while back that I wasn't as impressed by the Chiang story. The radical differences between the aliens' spoken and written languages was interesting, as was the theme of the relation between language and thought along with the idea that learning a new language could change not only your way of thinking about the world but even your way of perceiving it. I guess I just had a real problem with the nature of the difference of the aliens' way of perceiving time (being able to see their whole lives from beginning to end ... now just how would that work in physical terms?) and the idea that a human could acquire the same ability just by learning an alien language.

Our mileage unfortunately varied.

A lot of these stories seem to revolve around the concepts of linguistic relativity and determinism (more commonly, the "Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis") ... and misunderstandings thereof. Sorry, Eskimo has only three or four word roots that refer exclusively to snow. It's been a long time since I re-read 1984 (the last time was in 1984, IIRC ); maybe I'll have a look at that appendix again.

[SandChigger]

Started the slave/ghost-ship story last night and finished it this morning; started the starship hijack one, too.

The slaver tale was pretty good, but it's definitely NOT science fiction, so the Islamic elements have to be why it was included. The last one is turning out to be pretty good, both story- and writing-wise; hoping to finish it up this afternoon....

[SandChigger]

Finished reading the "For a Little Price" novella by Tom Ligon last night (was pretty good), and with it wrapped up the A Mosque Among the Stars collection. Will probably post a review of sorts on my blog in a few days, after things percolate a bit more.

I don't really want to make an enemy of the editors, but it really wasn't very good, overall.

To cleanse my palate, as it were, this morning I read the first two chapters of Effinger's When Gravity Fails. Still very early (in the reading), but I think I'm going to like it. The world it's set in is rather bleak, though. The year is sometime around 1580 AH (2202 CE ); about 70 years earlier the US and USSR (this was published in 1986, remember) and then most other countries had disintegrated into a patchwork of smaller kingdoms, republics and what-have-you.

I find that a very depressing prospect. A lack of large nation-states probably also means no significant space programs and no solar system exploration/colonization. And THAT means, basically, species suicide.

Oh well. At least the people of the world have their virtual entertainments...

"This species has amused itself to death!"

[Omphalos]

Im in the middle of Hugo Gernsback's Ralph 124C 41+. Its a very early SF novel, but its decent enough.

[SandChigger]

Hey, did we ever discuss religious/Christian-inspired science fiction here? Like Antarktos Rising or The Didymus Contingency by Jeremy Robinson?

Was just wondering, because I found them hiding in one of my book piles and can't for the life of me figure WHY I bought them.


Also, here's a really freaky one: While going through a stack of old paperbacks yesterday that someone had given me years ago and that I'd never read, guess what I found that really blew me away! Banks' The Player of Games.

Damn ... I could have been on to him years ago.

[Omphalos]

Don't recall those books.

Just got a copy of The Poison Belt today.

[Liege-Killer]

Hey, did we ever discuss religious/Christian-inspired science fiction here?

Sounds like mislabeling to me; file under "fantasy."

[SandChigger]

I went into my order history on Amazon and found that I ordered them back in early December 2007, which is about when Omph started up this board.

James Blish's A Case of Conscience (which I also still haven't read yet) was in the same pile and the same order. Maybe I got onto the Robinson stuff through one of the discussions over there. Who knows.

Anyway, yeah, fantasy is right. I had a bit of a look thru last night before bed and I think it'll be a while yet before I read either. (The Blish is properly in the actively moving book pile now, though. )

This Robinson fellow is evidently a hero to the POD people over there, since his first book was evidently a hit on LuLu. Omph, do you know anything about Breakneck Books/Variance Publishing? They sound like a POD publisher that has gone small press.

Oh yeah: our good friend Brian Conway has published his "review" of KJA's Terra Incognita: The Edge of the World. He gave the book four stars on Amazon but five on another site, with the same review. I've asked why there's a difference, but I doubt he will respond.

(According to the review, there a place in the book called Terravitae, "Land of Life". A fantasy world with different creation myths but they still speak Latin. Yeah, Kev, that makes sense. )

Edit: Correction, he had replied by this morning. Claims the mouse slipped and that's why he gave it four stars. Lame, lame, lame.

[chanilover]

...they indulge in some after-fight sex (what's the funny name for that again?) and make their first baby.

Make-up sex?

Hmm ... maybe that's it ... but I was thinking there was some really funny term for it....

Marriage. Probably.

[Freakzilla]

...they indulge in some after-fight sex (what's the funny name for that again?) and make their first baby.

Make-up sex?

Hmm ... maybe that's it ... but I was thinking there was some really funny term for it....

Marriage. Probably.

Then it becomes just "grude sex".

[Omphalos]

...they indulge in some after-fight sex (what's the funny name for that again?) and make their first baby.

Make-up sex?

Hmm ... maybe that's it ... but I was thinking there was some really funny term for it....

Marriage. Probably.

Then it becomes just "grude sex".

Ah yes! The ties that bind. Its the best reason I have come up with for not strangling her sometimes. I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

[Freakzilla]

After that comes hallway sex.

That's when you say "fuck you" as you pass each other in the hall.

[Star Dust]

Broke down and got a library card at the local library ( Cloudcroft). HOOOO boy do they have a tiny collection.

I actually know where Cloudcroft is, having driven through a few times. How far is that from Weed, NM?

I got stuck reading this fantasy series by Brent Weeks called the Night Angel Trilogy. Pretty run of the mill, with yet another infuriating guilt-ridden, self-loathing, omnipotent hero character. <sigh>

Next week I have to start reading Absolom, Absolom by Faulkner for my friend's summer book club. Oh dear....Faulkner...200 pages, 400 sentences - IF THAT.

[Omphalos]

About 1/3 through a book called Circuit, about a 15th Circuit Court set up for the Moon, Mars and the belt. So far its essentially a Star Trek space policy discussion, but I find that kind of stuff interesting (but not exciting).

[SandChigger]

I've got about 50 pp left in the first Effinger. Then I'm not sure which way I'm going ... into the second book, or back to some Miéville, or jump to a different "critical darling" with some Le Guin ... decisions, decisions.

(Have started the first chapter of In the Land of Invented Languages by Arika Okrent, btw. 'Tis all the rage now in the conlang circles. )

[Robspierre]

Just finished Zoe's Tale by some guy named Scalzi, not a bad writer

Rob

[SandChigger]

I think that's one still in the pile from my earlier Scalzi spree.

I didn't jump right into it after reading the first three "Old Man's War" books, though, because telling the story again from Zoe's PoV seemed a bit of overkill ... if that makes sense?

Thought I'd let the details chill a bit.

But yeah, not a bad writer at all.

(And I'd say WE KNOW BAD WRITERS.)

[Omphalos]

I really wanna read Scalzi's Android book. From teh description it sounds great.

[SandChigger]

I got that one and Agent to the Stars, too.

(I said it was a spree. )

[Omphalos]

Im about 2/3 through Ringworld right now. I will always love that book.

[Freakzilla]

Im about 2/3 through Ringworld right now. I will always love that book.

That's about where I left off... maybe I'll take another crack at it.

[Omphalos]

Im about 2/3 through Ringworld right now. I will always love that book.

That's about where I left off... maybe I'll take another crack at it.

Ignore the horrible writing. Concentrate on the psychology and the motivation of the characters, on the wild scienctific speculation, and on the Puppeteer's plot to use all the other races against other. The writing is truly abysmal, but everything else is great.

[Himachil]

Just finished listening to A Scanner Darkly audiobook.

Much more better than the film.

[Omphalos]

Did you like the film, Himachil? Despite my initial feelings, I enjoyed it. Book is better though.

BTW, Ive been meaning to ask you about that Darko Suvin quote. Have you read his stuff? He's the one big critic I have never read.

[Himachil]

I re-watched the film last night and I enjoyed it more than I did the first time around (pre-book). The book does things the film can't do - while the film stays true to the surface of the book, it misses all the explanation.

eg: coming home after the surveillance system has been covertly fitted, in the book that's quite a meaty chunk. Bob goes over it in his mind for quite a while, finding the cigarette/joint in the ash tray is quite a tense moment - the film doesn't do that, it can't do that. - it's all a bit of a non-scene. And there are a few of those.

Do love the visuals though

I've only read one Darko Suvin essay - It was pretty useful at the time. I've actually got a book of his somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic atm - Looking forward to doing a bit of a critical session at some point

[Robspierre]

I think that's one still in the pile from my earlier Scalzi spree.

I didn't jump right into it after reading the first three "Old Man's War" books, though, because telling the story again from Zoe's PoV seemed a bit of overkill ... if that makes sense?

Thought I'd let the details chill a bit.

But yeah, not a bad writer at all.

(And I'd say WE KNOW BAD WRITERS.)

It is aimed at the YA audience but it's damn good, choked me up a bit too.

Rob

[Omphalos]

Started Simak's Way Station the other night.

[Liege-Killer]

I went to the annual summer book sale at the library the other day, but my book pile didn't get much bigger. This is a huge event every year, held outside the library with tables of books stretching all the way around the building. Last year I saw tons of SF (a lot of it worthless, but tons nevertheless). This year, there was practically none. And I was one of the first people there; it's not like other people beat me to it. It was a damn shame, I tell you. I came away with five books, I think, that's all. It was a sad, sad day.

Over the course of two visits, I did notice a copy of Sandworms of Dune sitting there, unsold.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I just started another Banks book last night, Matter, I think Banks is fast becoming a favourite author of mine. I still haven't finished Slaughterhouse 5, and I don't usually do 2 at once, but for some reason S5 just isn't drawing me in at all.

[SandChigger]

Mmmm ... Matter.

[GamePlayer]

Is that damn book available in paperback yet? The delay is killing me! Only reason I've managed to hold out this long is because I'm busy with non-fiction, currently reading Singer's Wired For War.

[Omphalos]

Yep. Several months now. Here it is.

[GamePlayer]

Finally. Now to see if a local seller has it

[inhuien]

GP I thought I mentioned that Matter was out in Paperback, cause I knew you were holding out for it, Sorry if it slipped my mind.

[GamePlayer]

I may have forgotten you mentioned it. I get paid this week so I'll go check out my local stores to see if I can snag a copy.

[Eyes High]

Raising Atlantis by Thomas Greanias. (anyone else ever read this?)

[Dune Nerd]

Just finished Choke by Chuck Palahniuk and started on Fight Club. Could not do scifi again, I started Left Hand of Darkness and enjoyed it but just wanted a different flavor.

Anyone else ever read his stuff? Best I can tell he is a sick twisted fuck who writes about craziness.

[Omphalos]

Read Starship Troopers on my flight from Cleveland today.

[SandChigger]

How was the weather back in the ole Big O?

[Omphalos]

wetter and cooler than usual. We had three beautiful days there, thougs as an acclimated westerner, I hated the humidity. Chicago Midway got shut down on Wed and Thurs because of thunderstorms.

[Eyes High]

Have finished "Raising Atlantis" not for sure what to read next, should get back to Dune but VBS starts Sunday and I know I won't have much time to devote to much fun reading.

[SandChigger]

Started The Scar by "critical darling" China Miéville yesterday.

[Mandy]

I'm going to read Dune again. I've got a couple friends from another site interested in reading and discussing it.

[SandChigger]

Kewl.

(TK the site? )

[Mandy]

Kewl.

(TK the site? )

Yeah, how did you know? lol

[SandChigger]

I'm psychic that way.

[Freakzilla]

I'm going to read Dune again. I've got a couple friends from another site interested in reading and discussing it.

Don't forget about the Dune Reading Group.

[Omphalos]

I'm going to read Dune again. I've got a couple friends from another site interested in reading and discussing it.

Don't forget about the Dune Reading Group.

Freak, do you care that those are out of order? I can fix that permenantly if you want.

[Mandy]

It's very hard to discuss Dune chapter by chapter and not mention things that I already know will happen. That's kind of why I don't go to your reading group, Freak.

[Freakzilla]

I'm going to read Dune again. I've got a couple friends from another site interested in reading and discussing it.

Don't forget about the Dune Reading Group.

Freak, do you care that those are out of order? I can fix that permenantly if you want.

Yes, please. I would rather them stay in order. Thanks!

[Freakzilla]

It's very hard to discuss Dune chapter by chapter and not mention things that I already know will happen. That's kind of why I don't go to your reading group, Freak.

That's OK, If it's a broad theme throughout the series I'd rather a topic in General Dune Discussion, or wherever.

Or you could just make a spoiler disclaimer. I have all the chapters of all the books in the series summarized, you could mention those things in the apropriate book/chapter. I pay close attention to what gets posted there, post what you want, if it's too big a spoiler I will remind you or point you to the right chapter.

Am I unrealistic to not want to spoil things for first time readers?

[Mandy]

Am I unrealistic to not want to spoil things for first time readers?

Oh no, I think that's a good idea. I just find it hard to stay within a chapter when I'm discussing Dune. Then there's the fact that there's really nothing most of us haven't discussed already, so coming up with new thoughts on anything in Dune is a challenge.

[Freakzilla]

Am I unrealistic to not want to spoil things for first time readers?

Oh no, I think that's a good idea. I just find it hard to stay within a chapter when I'm discussing Dune. Then there's the fact that there's really nothing most of us haven't discussed already, so coming up with new thoughts on anything in Dune is a challenge.

That's the only thing Preeks are good for.

[Freakzilla]

I'm going to read Dune again. I've got a couple friends from another site interested in reading and discussing it.

Don't forget about the Dune Reading Group.

Freak, do you care that those are out of order? I can fix that permenantly if you want.

Yes, please. I would rather them stay in order. Thanks!

While you're at it...

Can you make it so all chapters show up on the page for each book?

[Omphalos]

I'm going to read Dune again. I've got a couple friends from another site interested in reading and discussing it.

Don't forget about the Dune Reading Group.

Freak, do you care that those are out of order? I can fix that permenantly if you want.

Yes, please. I would rather them stay in order. Thanks!

While you're at it...

Can you make it so all chapters show up on the page for each book?

Not sure what you mean? so readers dont have to go to a page 2?

[Freakzilla]

Nevermind, I don't think this is happening since we upgraded.

Older topics used to get hidden and you had to choose to show them all.

[Mandy]

I think this mod would be very helpful for your reading group. It makes it so you can hover your cursor over a topic title and read the first post without opening the thread.

http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopi ... &t=1257235" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Omphalos]

Thanks Mandy

[Freakzilla]

I've seen that feature in an automotive forum I use, it IS very helpful.

[Dune Nerd]

I'm going to read CITY from Clifford D. Simak. Love Simak, he is great.

[Omphalos]

city is an incredibe book. Just finished Way Station.

[Robspierre]

All sic of the Red Sonja books published in the early 80's, love the Vollejo covers.

Rob

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just finished Matter. Extremely good book, I'll have to read some of the books he wrote between this one and Use of Weapons, because the tech in this book is phenominal - and it's leaps and bounds ahead of what was in his earlier books (not that those lacked, but they are notibly dated in the way tech is used. No hint of that in this one). Extremely well thought out and put together, and I don't say that lightly about a book with things like force feilds and made up dimensions and such (which I normally hate, but Banks pulls it all off so perfectly I can't even begin to complain).

The ending left me feeling like there is a huge message hidden in it, Banks doesn't just throw plot around lightly. That said, I cannot figure out the message. Like Use of Weapons, I'm going to have to put this book aside and read it again later for it to fully make sense.

I think I'm going to read Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness next.

[Dune Nerd]

Just finished Matter. Extremely good book, I'll have to read some of the books he wrote between this one and Use of Weapons, because the tech in this book is phenominal - and it's leaps and bounds ahead of what was in his earlier books (not that those lacked, but they are notibly dated in the way tech is used. No hint of that in this one). Extremely well thought out and put together, and I don't say that lightly about a book with things like force feilds and made up dimensions and such (which I normally hate, but Banks pulls it all off so perfectly I can't even begin to complain).

The ending left me feeling like there is a huge message hidden in it, Banks doesn't just throw plot around lightly. That said, I cannot figure out the message. Like Use of Weapons, I'm going to have to put this book aside and read it again later for it to fully make sense.

I think I'm going to read Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness next.

Just finished The Left Hand of Darkness and I have to say that it took me a bit to get into the book but overall it was an interesting story with good characterizations.

That being said be careful b/c she is a 'critical darling' so it may not be all it is cracked up to be.

[SandChigger]

(Mention of Le Guin reminded me of something in WoD I forgot to kvetch about: a planet named Grand Hain. It's in PoD, too. )

[Omphalos]

In the middle of William Golding's The Inheritors. Its SF, about a group of neandertals with psi powers who are being hunted and killed by the new kids on the block, homo sapiens.

[Freakzilla]

In the middle of William Golding's The Inheritors. Its SF, about a group of neandertals with psi powers who are being hunted and killed by the new kids on the block, homo sapiens.

Sasquatch makes an appearance in one of Julian May's books, I think it was Magnificat, the narrator is hidding out in the northern wilderness of Canada and uses the Sasquatch's sub-operant mental signature to mask his from the Galactic Polity.

Not that bigfoot is Neanderthal, just that the species is somewhat operant reminded me of that.

http://www.amazon.com/Magnificat-Galact ... 773&sr=1-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OOPS...

I think it's Jack the Bodiless:

http://www.amazon.com/Jack-Bodiless-Gal ... =pd_cp_b_3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[A Thing of Eternity]

Oh, I forgot to mention, there's an interview with Banks at the end of Matter, he gives a breif nod to Dune, and he unfortunately almost word for word repeats KJA, talking about the infinite effects budget of SF novels.

[Liege-Killer]

In the middle of William Golding's The Inheritors. Its SF, about a group of neandertals with psi powers who are being hunted and killed by the new kids on the block, homo sapiens.

Hunted.... and eaten?

(Reference to a post at Worm's, in case it's not obvious.)

[Liege-Killer]

Oh by the way, I'm so bad about forgetting to post about my reading adventures here.

I recently finished A Deepness in the Sky by Vernor Vinge, and Lady of Mazes by Karl Schroeder. Both very good reads.

I'm currently working on Excession by Banks, and The City and the Stars by Clarke.

[SandChigger]

Oh, I forgot to mention, there's an interview with Banks at the end of Matter, he gives a breif nod to Dune, and he unfortunately almost word for word repeats KJA, talking about the infinite effects budget of SF novels.

I don't think the idea is so bad in and of itself, because in a way isn't it really about the author using the imagination of the reader?

The problem is in the application of the idea. In the hands of a hack like Kevin J. Anderson (not that his hands are in any way involved in his "writing" process), it's just flash, the crutch he has to use because he has absolutely nothing going on anywhere else. Banks at least can write.

[Omphalos]

In the middle of William Golding's The Inheritors. Its SF, about a group of neandertals with psi powers who are being hunted and killed by the new kids on the block, homo sapiens.

Hunted.... and eaten?

(Reference to a post at Worm's, in case it's not obvious.)

Which post was that? Got my mind on work lately and can't recall which it was.

And no, they weren't eaten. But they did become sapiens-chow in Jack London's Before Adam, which is essentially about the same thing, only the conflict was between homo sapiens (?) and a strain of man that went extinct about two million years before homo sapiens came along, IIRC. Its been a while since I read the London book.

[The Phantom]

just finished a re-read of Animal Farm and 1984.. now I'm working on Asimov's The End of Eternity

[Eyes High]

Half way thru Starship Troopers. (Spiff gave it to me for my birthday. wasn't he nice.)

[Omphalos]

Half way thru Starship Troopers. (Spiff gave it to me for my birthday. wasn't he nice.)

Ill be putting a review of that up shortly. Just have to proof it again and up it goes.

[Eyes High]

Half way thru Starship Troopers. (Spiff gave it to me for my birthday. wasn't he nice.)

Ill be putting a review of that up shortly. Just have to proof it again and up it goes.

Just saw it over at Worm's. Thanks for the review.

[GamePlayer]

just finished a re-read of Animal Farm and 1984.. now I'm working on Asimov's The End of Eternity

Good taste. I've read both. Excellent books. In school, 1984 was one of the few mandatory books that was a pleasure to read. I never got the chance to read Animal Farm during school so I enjoyed it years after college.

[The Phantom]

just finished a re-read of Animal Farm and 1984.. now I'm working on Asimov's The End of Eternity

Good taste. I've read both. Excellent books. In school, 1984 was one of the few mandatory books that was a pleasure to read. I never got the chance to read Animal Farm during school so I enjoyed it years after college.

they're both on my "re-read annually" list, along with the Dune Chronicles

[A Thing of Eternity]

just finished a re-read of Animal Farm and 1984.. now I'm working on Asimov's The End of Eternity

If I don't hurry up and read 1984 soon I'm going to have to punch myself.

I've also looked at The End of Eternity several times, let me know how that one is, if you could please.

[The Phantom]

just finished a re-read of Animal Farm and 1984.. now I'm working on Asimov's The End of Eternity

If I don't hurry up and read 1984 soon I'm going to have to punch myself.

I've also looked at The End of Eternity several times, let me know how that one is, if you could please.

I'm about halfway through it right now and the plot is just getting exciting. It's pretty typical Asimov fare, with good characterization, a neat and well explained sci-fi idea as its basis, and interesting contexts for the action. so far I'd recommend.

[Freakzilla]

just finished a re-read of Animal Farm and 1984.. now I'm working on Asimov's The End of Eternity

If I don't hurry up and read 1984 soon I'm going to have to punch myself.

I've also looked at The End of Eternity several times, let me know how that one is, if you could please.

I'm about halfway through it right now and the plot is just getting exciting. It's pretty typical Asimov fare, with good characterization, a neat and well explained sci-fi idea as its basis, and interesting contexts for the action. so far I'd recommend.

Is that the one about the postron pump?

[Omphalos]

Are you thinking of The Gods Themselves?

[The Phantom]

this one has the two dimensions, so to speak... one time based, divided into sections based on centuries, and an eternal realm where the "Eternals" basically monitor time based reality and introduce changes to protect humanity from itself.. they also manage inter-temporal trade.

[Freakzilla]

Been ages since I read those, I barely remember that story.

[Omphalos]

this one has the two dimensions, so to speak... one time based, divided into sections based on centuries, and an eternal realm where the "Eternals" basically monitor time based reality and introduce changes to protect humanity from itself.. they also manage inter-temporal trade.

This is one of those books where the Eternals chose the universe of the Foundation for humanity: Lots of planets, no aliens.

[Eyes High]

Finished Starship Troopers last night. Thinking about going back to Dune.

[SandChigger]

Am slowly trying to work up the energy to return to The Scar, after the nastiness that was WoD.

[The Phantom]

this one has the two dimensions, so to speak... one time based, divided into sections based on centuries, and an eternal realm where the "Eternals" basically monitor time based reality and introduce changes to protect humanity from itself.. they also manage inter-temporal trade.

This is one of those books where the Eternals chose the universe of the Foundation for humanity: Lots of planets, no aliens.

correct, except fo rthe lots of planets thing...
in fact, the Eternals tend to steer humanity away from space travel and keep them confined to earth, travelling through time rather than space.

[Omphalos]

I think those Eternals books may have been some of the first SF I ever read.

I just started a book by David Wingrove last night called Chung Kuo: The Middle Kingdom. Its about a world dominated by China. Its pretty good. The writing is not stellar, but the story is interesting (though slow moving). The book is about 650 pp, and I just found out a few moments ago that there are six other volumes in the series. I guess Wingrove had a lot to say.

[SandChigger]

I started reading that, but when I found out I couldn't easily get the rest of the series, I lost interest. The use of the Wade-Giles romanization also annoyed the hell out of me, being used to Pinyin. (I guess he figured more people are familiar with the old? Patently false, of course.) And the writing is pretty dire.

I also had problems with the basic setting. Like a world-dominant China would really return to traditional culture? I guess stranger things have happened.

[Omphalos]

Yea, I came to the conclusion last night that his sociological ideas were a little far fetched, but his technological are amazing. I also do like that the conflict is between the westerners who own corporations and favor technolgical development and the royalty who have in place an Edict to stiffle that. And I suppose the fact that the government's change-phobic outlook, which is due to the might of an enormous population, does translate well from the most populous nation on Earth to the Earth itself. His character development is awesome too; worthy of respect.

the only real problem is that his writing is bland. Nothing stands out as really great. Wingrove is a critic and scholar - I think he co-write Trillion Year Spree with Aldiss. He has gotten so wrapped up in the technical that he's snubbed the artistic.

[Robspierre]

Finished Orphans of the Sky and am now on Beyond This Horizon, both by Heinlein.

Rob

[GamePlayer]

I finally picked up Matter by Iain M. Banks in paperback and have begun reading. Here we go!

[Star Dust]

The Streets of Laredo by James McMurtry. Love me a good western!

[Omphalos]

Started The Carpet Makers by Andreas Eschbach last night. Got about 150 pp into it until I could not keep my eyes open any longer. Its really good, if a bit detached and, at least for now, its hard for me to figure where the author is going.

Still have about a dozen half-finished books sitting on my bedside table though.

[The Phantom]

Rocannon's world, Le Guin

[inhuien]

I finally picked up Matter by Iain M. Banks in paperback and have begun reading. Here we go!

I hope the above emoto-conic review hasn't spoiled the novel for you any.

[GamePlayer]

I'm sure all will be clear very soon

[inhuien]

I'm sure all will be clear very soon

Strangely it makes a sort of sense, but then so do the predictions of Nostradamus. At least retrospectively.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I finally picked up Matter by Iain M. Banks in paperback and have begun reading. Here we go!

You should definitely let me know what you think of the ending.

EDIT TO ADD: I just started Brave New World, I actually didn't know this was written in the thirties, I thought it was newer. I'm really looking forward to this one, I love dark SF from the early days. Somehow, the writers of the last couple decades just don't manage to scare me the way these old masters could.

[GamePlayer]

This weekend was rather busy, so I didn't have a chance to read much. Grrrr. I'm only on the third chapter. But so far it's grabbed my attention well. I will definitely post my thoughts on the "matter" once I'm done (yeah, I know, but I just had to say that )

[Robspierre]

Biology text book for my online summer class. Fuck it's almost as bad as reading KJA!

Rob

[Rakis]

Haven't read anything since last november when baby boy came to this world...

Next week, i'm beginning Banks' The Culture series...

[Omphalos]

Halfway though. Lester del Rey's history of SF, The World of Science Fiction.

[GamePlayer]

I've barely got any reading time into Matter. I've been relegated to 30 minute intervals. Even so, I've made it to page 318 and so far it's been great. So many interesting places, events and characters. Anaplian (and the hilarious knife missile opening), the scheming Oct, the even more long-term machinations of Special Circumstances (this is so Player of Games-ish), Oramen, Shellworlds, and I find I'm even somewhat curiously charmed by the foppish Ferbin. The dialog is also fantastic and there have been some fantastic quotes so far. As luck would have it, this is a long weekend for us here in Ontario. So that book is going down for the count this weekend!

Next week, i'm beginning Banks' The Culture series...

When you do, don't be shy chatting about it. Which one ya gonna start with?

[Rakis]

I've barely got any reading time into Matter. I've been relegated to 30 minute intervals. Even so, I've made it to page 318 and so far it's been great. So many interesting places, events and characters. Anaplian (and the hilarious knife missile opening), the scheming Oct, the even more long-term machinations of Special Circumstances (this is so Player of Games-ish), Oramen, Shellworlds, and I find I'm even somewhat curiously charmed by the foppish Ferbin. The dialog is also fantastic and there have been some fantastic quotes so far. As luck would have it, this is a long weekend for us here in Ontario. So that book is going down for the count this weekend!

Next week, i'm beginning Banks' The Culture series...

When you do, don't be shy chatting about it. Which one ya gonna start with?

I'll begin with Consider Phlebas...

[GamePlayer]

A fine choice. That was my first Banks book

[SandChigger]

As a machine-wannabe, I was hooked by the beginning of that one, but I sometimes wonder if your namesake volume might not be the better intro...

But we've had this discussion ... have we not ... or have we?

[GamePlayer]

We have
But honestly, the question of which Culture novel new readers should begin with is a subject of some debate among all Banks fans. I'm not typically concerned if new readers pick Consider Phlebas, The Player of Games or State of the Art for beginners. I only worry when a new reader says they want to start with Excession, Inversions or Look To Windward, which are all better read if one is familiar with at least one or two earlier Culture novels. Especially since Banks can be a very challenging writer, I know some aspects of the Culture have turned off readers who are almost offended by the daringly progressive themes and norm-challenging concepts explored in the fiction. One person I recommended the Culture novels too was so offended/disturbed/disgusted by the citizens ability to control their own sex that he never even finished the book I lent him. Of course, that's an extreme example and that person was never going to like authors like Banks, Herbert, Heinlein, anyway, so it's not so much a loss as it is an unfortunate reality. But there is some material in in Bank's fiction that tramples upon even what is held sacred by some open-minded modernists and conservative atheists/secularists. Hell, I'm not even comfortable with some of the daring concepts Banks has written, but that's kinda the point of reading good fiction.

Digressing, Use of Weapons and Matter can work well as explanatory novels of the Culture. However, Use of Weapons has a challenging non-linear narrative that can clash with some readers (I adore it, but I'm a Memento fan, so I love crazy structural innovation like that) while Matter is very dense, lengthy and you're hit with so much detail that I can imagine new readers losing all the world building in amongst struggling just to remember people and places.

Still, I think it's better to go read any of the three Culture novels I listed first before any others simply because I have no way of knowing the tastes of a potential new reader to Banks. Granted, I have to assume most who can handle Frank Herbert can handle Iain M. Banks, but I don't see any reason to throw new readers into the harder novels. If I knew a potential new reader had read/enjoyed Peter F. Hamilton, I'd say start with Excession. Otherwise, stick with the more accessible books first. Besides, if someone doesn't like Consider Phlebas, The Player of Games or State of the Art, there's little chance they'll like any of the other books.

[SandChigger]

Fair enough.

[Omphalos]

Im still uncultured, and after reading that travesty, Feersum Endjin, Im likely to remain that way.

[GamePlayer]

Feersum Endjin isn't a Culture novel. That's one of Bank's other sci-fi books. I've never read stuff like Bank's Feersum Endjin or The Algebraist, but everyone I have spoken with that's read them does not like them. They call them experimental, esoteric, pseudo-philosophical and so forth. I've got the impression Banks writes those books to test new unconventional ideas/concepts in both the fiction and the writing process. I suspect the results are much like some musician's jam session

I've only read Bank's fiction books and the Culture science fiction novels, both of which are solidly written and among the best writing I've read.

[Omphalos]

I didnt mean to suggest that it was a culture novel. I know it isnt. Im just saying burn me once, shame on him. Burn me twice, shame on me.

[GamePlayer]

Well, I can only say how unfortunate that is and the rest is out of my hands. But I am curious, what made you decide to read Feersum Endjin over all of Bank's other books, sci-fi or otherwise?

[Omphalos]

Well, I can only say how unfortunate that is and the rest is out of my hands. But I am curious, what made you decide to read Feersum Endjin over all of Bank's other books, sci-fi or otherwise?

I wanted to read some Banks, and do a reader's club thing at Worms. My brother is a huge Banks fan and recommended that as a good non-culture novel to read. I guess I did not want to start a series and not like it.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Digressing, Use of Weapons and Matter can work well as explanatory novels of the Culture. However, Use of Weapons has a challenging non-linear narrative that can clash with some readers (I adore it, but I'm a Memento fan, so I love crazy structural innovation like that) while Matter is very dense, lengthy and you're hit with so much detail that I can imagine new readers losing all the world building in amongst struggling just to remember people and places.

I agree that Use of Weapons would challenge a new Banks reader due to the lack of a linear plot -but I dissagree about Matter being a good explanatory book. I remember thinking as I read it that my girlfriend might like it, but without reading a book like The Player of Games I think she would be completely lost, and so much of what the S.C. characters say/think about would be gibberish. Not necessarily a bad thing, I like some good confusion in my SF, but I think that reading Matter before the earlier books would greatly diminish the enjoyment of Matter.

That said, Matter does do a great deal of explaning about Culture, and expanding what I'd already known, but what is left out is a pretty huge pile.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Im still uncultured, and after reading that travesty, Feersum Endjin, Im likely to remain that way.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! You simply CANNOT allow whatever is so terrible about Feersum Endjin (haven't read it myself) to prevent you from reading more Banks. This is the great SF author of our times. His philosophy is subtly stated, but hits like a hammer once the reader clues in (I know I've missed half the philosophy in his books, like FH, Banks would do well with re-read upon re-read for ever deeper layers), his characterization and prose are breathtaking. Breathtaking. When you read his Culture novels you forget that anyone even gives a shit about plot. Not that he skimps on a good plot though, he fearlessly kills off your favourite character, or has the protagonist take a completely realistic but utterly disappointing path (zero pandering to lower denominators' need for heroes in fiction). He is one of the few authors that if I catch myself starting to feel like skipping even one word out of a sentence I force myself to take a break, because it's a crime to miss a single word this man writes. Poetry, every line. He has obviously put as much re-writing and thought into every chapter as most of the best authors I read must put into their entire novels.

You must read The Player of Games, then Use of Weapons. Forget Consider Phlebas for now IMO, the latter two are better and I don’t think the earlier one would loose anything for being read latter if you want. Don’t let anything in TPoG to dissuade you from reading UoW either – you finish both them books! THEN, you can talk about skipping out on the rest of the Culture novels. And you don’t have to worry about your hatred of long series, because as far as I can tell there really is no series, each novel is a complete standalone from the others.













Ok, was that laying it on thick?

No. I don't think it was.

[GamePlayer]

Well, I can only say how unfortunate that is and the rest is out of my hands. But I am curious, what made you decide to read Feersum Endjin over all of Bank's other books, sci-fi or otherwise?

I wanted to read some Banks, and do a reader's club thing at Worms. My brother is a huge Banks fan and recommended that as a good non-culture novel to read. I guess I did not want to start a series and not like it.

Wow.

Digressing, Use of Weapons and Matter can work well as explanatory novels of the Culture. However, Use of Weapons has a challenging non-linear narrative that can clash with some readers (I adore it, but I'm a Memento fan, so I love crazy structural innovation like that) while Matter is very dense, lengthy and you're hit with so much detail that I can imagine new readers losing all the world building in amongst struggling just to remember people and places.

I agree that Use of Weapons would challenge a new Banks reader due to the lack of a linear plot -but I dissagree about Matter being a good explanatory book. I remember thinking as I read it that my girlfriend might like it, but without reading a book like The Player of Games I think she would be completely lost, and so much of what the S.C. characters say/think about would be gibberish. Not necessarily a bad thing, I like some good confusion in my SF, but I think that reading Matter before the earlier books would greatly diminish the enjoyment of Matter.

That said, Matter does do a great deal of explaning about Culture, and expanding what I'd already known, but what is left out is a pretty huge pile.

I never got that feeling from Matter. It doesn't embellish Special Circumstances or Contact, but it does tell the reader exactly what they are and what they do. I don't see how the thoughts of Jerle Batra of Anaplian would become indecipherable within just the context of Matter. You don't get as much out of Matter as you would if you'd read another Culture novel, but that's the extent of it, at least in my opinion. Maybe things will change, I still haven't finished Matter (fucking malware infected my computer this weekend and had robbed me of nearly all my free time).

[Liege-Killer]

Continuing with the Culture discussion, here's my (limited) experience and some comments and questions.

I read The Player of Games when I was in high school, but like quite a few books I read back then, I can't remember much about it. I should probably re-read that one soon.

I read Consider Phlebas and liked it, gave it 3 stars in my review, IIRC. I didn't think it was anything spectacular, but it was solid and satisfying.

I recently finished Excession, haven't done the review yet, but I'm thinking it'll also come in at 3 stars. In some ways it was better than Consider Phlebas (for example, all the intrigue among the ship Minds), but in other ways less satisfying. For one thing, the (biological) characters in the former were far more interesting, while I couldn't care much about the ones in Excession. There may have been things I missed, but that's pretty much my feeling about it right now.

Comment: so far I like Banks, but by no means do I see him in the high terms AToE just used. Breathtaking prose? Ummm, it's ok.

Question: which Culture novel should I consider next? Besides re-reading TPoG, I mean? If the above novels didn't didn't take my breath away, which one might?

I think an "explanatory" novel would do me some good, because so far I've had some trouble really buying into the culture of the Culture. It just seems to me that it's not an entirely plausible society. In some ways it's so soft and hedonistic, but in other ways very aware and involved in galactic affairs. There's something about that that seems unrealistic to me. It's hard to get a sense of what makes the Culture tick, what drives them, what they want out of life. Does that make any sense?

[Omphalos]

That is kind of what I am thinking the books will be like. Average or maybe slightly above. You see, I really did dislike the "experimental" aspects of Feersum Endjin, but even discounting all that I was still kind of underwhelmed. It was science fantasy, and average at best. I guess Ill try one of the culture novels one day. Just not in a hurry.

Not only all of that, but those wankers over at SF Chronicles are always going on and on about what a genius Banks is. That alone turns me off of him.

[GamePlayer]

I think an "explanatory" novel would do me some good, because so far I've had some trouble really buying into the culture of the Culture. It just seems to me that it's not an entirely plausible society. In some ways it's so soft and hedonistic, but in other ways very aware and involved in galactic affairs. There's something about that that seems unrealistic to me. It's hard to get a sense of what makes the Culture tick, what drives them, what they want out of life. Does that make any sense?

Read A Few Notes on the Culture

That article, written by Banks, explains why the Culture functions, particularly paying attention to the social/economic/industrial/ideological details of why it WOULDN'T work for the current state of our species, considering the technology and social systems of today. From that point, the article moves forward piece by piece explaining how each hurdle would be solved to attain this quasi-anarchist, post-scarcity "utopia" (a somewhat inaccurate term, given that the Culture is still unable to reconcile several fundamental existential problems, such as war).

Some editions of the short story collection The State of the Art include A Few Notes on the Culture. SoO if you don't like reading on the computer, you can peruse your local bookstore and obtain a copy of that book (reading through it first, to ensure it's the type of edition that includes the "Notes").

That is kind of what I am thinking the books will be like. Average or maybe slightly above. You see, I really did dislike the "experimental" aspects of Feersum Endjin, but even discounting all that I was still kind of underwhelmed. It was science fantasy, and average at best. I guess Ill try one of the culture novels one day. Just not in a hurry.

Not only all of that, but those wankers over at SF Chronicles are always going on and on about what a genius Banks is. That alone turns me off of him.

I just wouldn't read any more Banks.

[Omphalos]

I just wouldn't read any more Banks.

Ill read it when I want to read it.

[inhuien]

I've been reading Banks (with and without the M) for more than 2 decades and I can understand why to some peoples taste he doesn't set your world on fire. He is a rather inconsistent author, my copy of Complicity now resides in a landfill in Ayrshire, the ending of that book infuriated me so much. But much like Chinese food if you start out with the chicken feet you may not stay it you're served the Singapore stir fry.

[Rakis]

Read A Few Notes on the Culture

That's what convinced me to start reading the Culture series...

[Liege-Killer]

Read A Few Notes on the Culture

Ok, that gives me a better understanding of Banks' underlying premises for the Culture. Thanks. I still don't know if such a society is entirely believable, or if it could ever come into existence. But hey, the same could be said for many of the worlds of science fiction. I'm sure I'll try a few more of the Culture books somewhere along the line.

[GamePlayer]

I just wouldn't read any more Banks.

Ill read it when I want to read it.

The advice was offered in good faith and should be taken as such, thank you very much.

I've been reading Banks (with and without the M) for more than 2 decades and I can understand why to some peoples taste he doesn't set your world on fire. He is a rather inconsistent author, my copy of Complicity now resides in a landfill in Ayrshire, the ending of that book infuriated me so much. But much like Chinese food if you start out with the chicken feet you may not stay it you're served the Singapore stir fry.

Exactly. Not everyone is going to like everything. Though I agree, best to start off with something good than something not so good. But I'm not sure your choice of foods make for a good analogy

Read A Few Notes on the Culture

That's what convinced me to start reading the Culture series...

That's a fine way to start, although I imagine if I suggested it to most people, they'd consider it more than a little dry. Like anthropology, but I love that sort of thing and it seems like you do to, so for some it would work brilliantly. If I recall, I read Consider Phlebas first. I think it was sometime during or after The Player of Games that I discovered the "Notes", which only made reading the books more enjoyable. It's a great companion piece.

Read A Few Notes on the Culture

Ok, that gives me a better understanding of Banks' underlying premises for the Culture. Thanks. I still don't know if such a society is entirely believable, or if it could ever come into existence. But hey, the same could be said for many of the worlds of science fiction. I'm sure I'll try a few more of the Culture books somewhere along the line.

I'm glad you feel that way. I think most empires in science fiction aren't given half the amount of consideration and effort that Banks invested in writing the Culture. That effort shows in the writing and the books benefit greatly because of it. Also, I think it's enough that Bank's creation makes you think and challenge the assumptions. It's inspirational in that way and hopefully encourages more material like it.

[inhuien]

I think I may have got my chicken feet and dogs balls mixed up.

[GamePlayer]

I think I may have got my chicken feet and dogs balls mixed up.

I think I'm going to be ill

[A Thing of Eternity]

Digressing, Use of Weapons and Matter can work well as explanatory novels of the Culture. However, Use of Weapons has a challenging non-linear narrative that can clash with some readers (I adore it, but I'm a Memento fan, so I love crazy structural innovation like that) while Matter is very dense, lengthy and you're hit with so much detail that I can imagine new readers losing all the world building in amongst struggling just to remember people and places.

I agree that Use of Weapons would challenge a new Banks reader due to the lack of a linear plot -but I dissagree about Matter being a good explanatory book. I remember thinking as I read it that my girlfriend might like it, but without reading a book like The Player of Games I think she would be completely lost, and so much of what the S.C. characters say/think about would be gibberish. Not necessarily a bad thing, I like some good confusion in my SF, but I think that reading Matter before the earlier books would greatly diminish the enjoyment of Matter.

That said, Matter does do a great deal of explaning about Culture, and expanding what I'd already known, but what is left out is a pretty huge pile.

I never got that feeling from Matter. It doesn't embellish Special Circumstances or Contact, but it does tell the reader exactly what they are and what they do. I don't see how the thoughts of Jerle Batra of Anaplian would become indecipherable within just the context of Matter. You don't get as much out of Matter as you would if you'd read another Culture novel, but that's the extent of it, at least in my opinion. Maybe things will change, I still haven't finished Matter (fucking malware infected my computer this weekend and had robbed me of nearly all my free time).

Maybe you're right, I might have overstated the confusingness of Matter. It's more the little things, like I think he mentions glanding several times, but I don't remember any mention of the glands. It does do great explanation of SC and Contact, much better than the other books I've read, you're definitely right about that. I just think that TPoG gives the best introduction to what exactly the culture is, and what it's like to be a citizen.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Ha, I see I may have really gone overboard with the Banks praise! Sometimes I get worked up, and hyperbole is probably one of my biggest and most annoying character flaws. However, Use of Weapons really was what cemented him as a genius (or at least a master) for me, TPoG is more relaxed and "average" but really sets up an understanding of the Culture.

Maybe also my taste for prose hasn't come far enough, but in my opinion the prose in a Banks book is truly good, especially in UoW which almost felt like an epic poem to me sometimes (not quite as poetic as Hyperion, but similar feel at points). I still have a lot to learn about what seperates truly amazing prose from the simply good, but I think Banks is far ahead of the pack.

Omph - sorry if I came off pushy, I just really love his work, and I would hate to see him written off because of a book I haven't read myself, I didn't mean to be rude.

[Omphalos]

I just wouldn't read any more Banks.

Ill read it when I want to read it.

The advice was offered in good faith and should be taken as such, thank you very much.

My grandma used to thank herself too. I think it was her way of saying "fuck you."

[The Phantom]

just re-read Lewis' Out of the Silent Planet and Perelandra

gotta go find a copy of That Hideous Strength to complete the trilogy

[GamePlayer]

I just wouldn't read any more Banks.

Ill read it when I want to read it.

The advice was offered in good faith and should be taken as such, thank you very much.

My grandma used to thank herself too. I think it was her way of saying "fuck you."

Would that I wonder one's words any wilder worrying woe than warning what and when one will do whatever, I'd wager.

Maybe you're right, I might have overstated the confusingness of Matter. It's more the little things, like I think he mentions glanding several times, but I don't remember any mention of the glands. It does do great explanation of SC and Contact, much better than the other books I've read, you're definitely right about that. I just think that TPoG gives the best introduction to what exactly the culture is, and what it's like to be a citizen.

They both mention and explain glanding in Matter. However, the book is dense and a bit too so for a first novel, I would think. But then again, people level the same complaint against Frank Herbert, so I guess there's no winning them over

Nonetheless, while you may be over-enthusiastic in your praise for Banks, his talent and creativity lends more cause to indulge than to criticize. I will say that while Banks does possess skill for prose, his greatest talents lie in character, detail, pacing and most definitely structure. He's also absolutely brilliant at grounding his own admittedly far flung fiction. He basically pushed science fiction nearly as far as was still comprehensible and then demanded a way within that world to tell tales to which the reader could still relate. It's no small feat and I certainly hold him in high regard for his science fiction. It's among the best I've read, new or old.

[Freakzilla]

Thank you very little.

[Liege-Killer]

If I knew a potential new reader had read/enjoyed Peter F. Hamilton, I'd say start with Excession.

Oh, I meant to ask.....

I've never read Hamilton. Any good?

Isn't he another of those guys who write long, loooooong books?

I think there's a story of his in an anthology on my waiting-to-be-read shelf.

[Omphalos]

His books all seem to be giants. They also seem space opera like, and Ive been thinking of giving him a try lately.

Is there any one book that stands out?

[inhuien]

The last Greg Mandel book, i think it's called Nano Flower and the first of the Night Dawn books, The Reality Dysfunction, are the two I suggest as stand outs. I've not read anything since Pandora Star (2004) so there may be something newer that better.

[GamePlayer]

If I knew a potential new reader had read/enjoyed Peter F. Hamilton, I'd say start with Excession.

Oh, I meant to ask.....

I've never read Hamilton. Any good?

Isn't he another of those guys who write long, loooooong books?

I think there's a story of his in an anthology on my waiting-to-be-read shelf.

Just to clarify, I used Peter F. Hamilton as an analogy only for his like-minded sci-fi oddness and complexity. Iain M. Bank's novel Excession is only 451 pages, nowhere near the length of a Hamilton novel. But you're right, Hamilton does write BIG books.

I'm rather ashamed to admit I've only read one Peter F. Hamilton book and I didn't finish it
I read over a third of The Reality Dysfunction, which is some 1,200 pages, thus I covered some 400-500 pages of the book, which is roughly the equivalent of most regular novels. The book is daunting and it's only the first of a trilogy, each of which are similar length, totaling some 3,600 pages. To give you an idea how lengthy that is, all three books of the Lord of the Rings trilogy by J.R.R. Tolkien total roughly 1,100 pages, including appendices.

I don't want to scare anyone away from Peter F. Hamilton just because I didn't finish one of his books. My impression of him is one of a competent writer who can engage the reader and his science fiction is enthralling. It's just the subject matter and detail is vast and a reader must be prepared for a long haul. I was also trying to read Hamilton during the height of my giddiness for Banks. It's fair to say I lost patience with The Reality Dysfunction in a race to get to my next Bank's book (Use of Weapons). Clearly, it was unfair to Hamilton. If I wasn't truly interested in reading his book, I should have waited until I was. But I was recommended Hamilton at the behest of a friend's mother (who is a sci-fi geek, very unusual) and was under the clock to return the book before moving away out east. I cannot honestly say whether I would have finished to book or not. If I had a copy now, I probably would, but I guess my actions speak volumes

[A Thing of Eternity]

I like loooooong works, 3600 pages sounds right in the sweet zone for an epic to me. Maybe I should put this into my list of things to read.

[Omphalos]

I'm in the middle of David Wingrove's first Chung Kuo (SF in a utopian world dominated by the Chinese) novel. Its about 700 pages and its the first of nine (soon to be ten) books set in the same universe. As a matter of fact, colletively they only tell the story of a few hundred years of time. I don't know if I have the stamina for 7000+ pages of one story, but I like the first book enough to read the second, which is on my shelf.

[Liege-Killer]

The only way I would read a 1200-page book is if it was a standalone, and if it sounded very, VERY damned interesting. But a whole series of such ponderous tomes? No thanks. Sounds like Hamilton's a no-go for me.

[Omphalos]

I used to really be into long books. That's why I got so much into The Stand as a kid. I just do not look for them the way I used to though.

[GamePlayer]

I don't mind long books, but I find as I have become more experienced reading/watching/listening to books/films/music, the familiarity breeds contempt. Especially with books, I need the construct to stand out, otherwise it's something I've already seen before. Herbert, Asimov, Card, Banks, Niven, Gibson, Dick, and all the rest each utilize radically different constructs that are uniquely distinct from those of the other authors. Each author may explore similar themes in similar ways, but the worlds are truly worlds apart. I think Hamilton's construct is definitely distinct, so even if his books are long, one should have no trouble appreciating the distinctiveness of the fiction. But of course, I can't say for sure if it's "very, VERY damned interesting" enough to be worth it.

I will say Hamilton's books are readily available now, just like Banks. In the early years, you had to order overseas to get the novels, but no longer.

[Mandy]

I like long books IF the book is really good, cause then I don't want it to end.

I'm almost finished with the first Wild Cards book, it's a lot better than I expected it to be based on the description. I'm usually not interested in superhero stuff, but this one surprised me.
http://wildcards.wikia.com/wiki/Wild_Cards_Wiki" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Wild Cards series of mosaic novels developed out of an ongoing superhero roleplaying campaign run by author George R.R. Martin and eventually spanning 19 volumes. Contributing authors include Roger Zelazny, Lewis Shiner, Melinda M. Snodgrass, Walter Jon Williams, John Jos. Miller, and Martin himself.

[GamePlayer]

Finally finished Matter and enjoyed it. It hasn't beaten my favorite Culture books (Consider Phlebas, The Player of Games and Use of Weapons), but it's definitely a hit. I posted my review on Amazon and on Jacurutu (My review of Matter by Iain M. Banks on Jacurutu)

[Rakis]

Well, i just finished reading Consider Phlebas from Banks and i really enjoyed it

I wasn't sure what to expect at first, i really got into it after the first third of the book and it became real interesting after that. I love the humor in it, reminds me a bit of Douglas Adams, although the story is quite tragic in a sense...a real war story...

...and the Idirans are one though sons of bitches !

I'll begin Player of games in a few days...

[Serkanner]

Well, i just finished reading Consider Phlebas from Banks and i really enjoyed it

I wasn't sure what to expect at first, i really got into it after the first third of the book and it became real interesting after that. I love the humor in it, reminds me a bit of Douglas Adams, although the story is quite tragic in a sense...a real war story...

...and the Idirans are one though sons of bitches !

I'll begin Player of games in a few days...

Great! I am reading Phlebas at the moment and I am thoroughly enjoying it.

[GamePlayer]

Awesome. Glad to hear you liked it. It is a fine book and one of my personal favorites.
I really enjoyed the last third of the novel, particularly the engaging structure. You've got these three converging stories all slowly being drawn toward the others. Then the pace picks up a little and the chapters become shorter. The book plays with the reader and teases them with more hints of what's going to happen. Then the pace picks up again and the chapters become even shorter. You can feel the gaining momentum and are beginning to piece things together. Then the train (literally) is on a collision course and the converging narratives keep coming faster and faster and faster until...boom! It was almost as good as sex

I love the description of the Idiran-Culture War, particularly the way in which it was fought and the reasons why the losing side lost the war. The sense that the war was lost due to one side's inability to understand and adapt to the dynamics of modern warfare in space gives the fiction a plausible anchor that makes the events feel that much more real. I also enjoyed the Idirans as a rather interesting science fiction species, particularly their physiology impacting their ideology. Very creative.

Anyway, I'm done gushing

[A Thing of Eternity]

I finished Brave New World, and then read Arthur C. Clarke's Childhood's End, definitely one of the best books that I've read by him so far.

Not sure what I'll grab next, maybe Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness, but I also just picked up another Richard Morgan book, Woken Furies, which is looking pretty temping. I also have The War of the Worlds in the pile, but I think I'll leave that one for now.

[Freakzilla]

The Many Colored Land - Julian May

25 five star reviews out of 34...

I still can't believe none of you have read this series, it's not like I recommend books often.

3-1/2 stars at SF Reviews.net:

As fresh and original as any book in the field, The Many-Colored Land, the deservedly acclaimed first novel in a series of series, takes readers on an amazing journey from the distant future to the distant past, using unexpected routes all along the way. In The Saga of Pliocene Exile, the human race has been discovered by benevolent aliens who have invited us to join a galaxy-spanning federation of sorts known as the Galactic Milieu, offering us interstellar travel, countless worlds for the colonizing, and the ability for certain gifted humans to discover and develop various "metapsychic" skills. The catch is, of course, that we must adhere to the strict, more or less socialist rules and agenda of the Milieu itself, which, while pretty much completely benevolent, still don't encourage anyone to be much of a free spirit.

Enter the startling discovery, on Earth (in France yet; how quaint!), of a one-way time portal leading back six million years to the Pliocene Era. Remarkable, but impractical — there really seems nothing to use it for — the portal soon becomes a way out for Milieu misfits and malcontents, or simply displaced souls who feel they'd be happier somewhere else. And so, in the years between the portal's discovery and the onset of this story, over a hundred thousand people have made the non-returnable voyage into the past, to build — hopefully — a new, happier and freer life.

As The Many-Colored Land opens, we are introduced to an ensemble cast of incipient time travellers, each of whom has his or her own reason for fleeing the Milieu and seeking a new start. A convicted felon spaceship captain, a guilt-ridden and faith-challenged nun, a loose-cannon prankster, a widower, a lovelorn anthropologist, a temperamental athlete unable to accept her fame, a metapsychic who has lost her talents in a crippling accident — these people and more converge upon the French estate housing the portal, receive whatever briefing there is on what they can probably expect on the other side, and, finally, are escorted through. However, though they all were expecting that they would emerge in an only vaguely familiar world, with little but their wits to guide them (regardless of the fact that the previous travellers must have formed a society of sorts in the Pliocene)...what they actually discover waiting for them on the other side is a shock none of them are quite prepared to handle...

For the few of you who still have not discovered this series after all these years, I simply cannot do the disservice of spoiling any surprises from here on out. Briefly, May's triumphs here include a tremendously original premise; fast-paced storytelling that defies predictability; and a sympathetic and well-rendered cast of characters who hold your attention throughout this whole high adventure. Now as the book nears its end, it probably isn't surprising that May kind of lets it get away from her. Sometimes, it seems as if she has things moving just too fast; there's quite a lot to take in here, and May doesn't go easy on the lazy reader, who could feel bulldozed by it all.

There are a few other problems. Often the story is too self-satisfied and glib. Certain scenes, particularly those late in the book dealing with the Firvulag, meant to provide comic relief, come off as simply cheesy, full of overly-broad campiness bordering on kitsch. But apart from these sequences, I must say that I really enjoyed reading a first novel in yet another multi-book saga that — for a change — doesn't drag its feet, and drag us as well, through interminable exposition and set-up, nor the same old cliché-ridden boring story. This novel, and this saga, are rightfully held to be among the more noteworthy SF achievements of the '80's. If you haven't passed through Julian May's time portal yet, well, hop in. There's always room for one more.

[Omphalos]

It's actually in my pile Freak. I bought a copy a while ago, but I have not gotten to it yet.

[Serkanner]

I have read the entire series way back. Most of them in Dutch however. I really like the series, especially the first four. The later sequels were less interesting but still interesting enough to buy and read. Like Freakzilla I would recommend these as well.

[Liege-Killer]

I've always thought it sounded interesting, but never got around to it. And I'm not likely to these days, given that part about it being "the first book in a series of series."

[Robspierre]

I read the three that started with Jack the Bodyless. Fun stuff. Very well written.

Rob

[Freakzilla]

I read the three that started with Jack the Bodyless. Fun stuff. Very well written.

Rob

That's actually the last "series of series" chronologically, but as good a place to start as any I guess.

[Rakis]

I finished reading The Player of Games from Banks...what can i say but...WOW !

Maybe one of the best book i read with God Emperor, simple as that...I liked two things in it : The subtle look at our present society and, for me, how the media in general play a role in making us desensitize towards abuse, violence and so on...

I also liked everything about the meaning of games in it. The part where they explained the game of Azad for the first time, it's meanings, the importance of it, the way Gurgeh reacted to it was just amazing the way it was written...I don't know where Banks' found that inspiration, but it's just mind boggling in it's complexity and meanings...The way Gurgeh played and think about the game reminded me of how a Mentat works toward making a Prime Projection in FH's books...and the humor in it is just so good, icing on the cake...

GP :I don't know if i should read Use of Weapons or State of the Art next, because i know the story in State of the Art precedes Use of Weapons...what do you recommend?

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just finished Woken Furies by Richard Morgan, the third and final book in his Takeshi Kovacs series. It was really good, the advancement of technology and character from the first book is impressively well done (the three books span over a hundred years I believe). Very good, but I think Black Man (called Thirteen in the US), a stand alone novel, is the best thing I've read from him so far. I just have Market Forces left and then I've read all of Morgan's SF, and I'll have to start reading his new fantasy noir book.

[A Thing of Eternity]

The Left Hand of Darkness

[Omphalos]

Good book, Thing. Ive been reading a lot of anthologies lately. Last night I started Gardner Dozois' Best of SF from 1993, the 11th edition.

[Rakis]

Just finished State of the Art from Banks...another fine observation of humanity, although it was a short one...just begun Use of Weapons

[Ampoliros]

I'm almost done with my post winds Dune purge, working through Heretics. I need another really good series after this. I still have a few Bank's Culture books to do, namely Excession, State of the Art and Look to Windward. TYTYTYTYTYTYTYTY GP for introducing me to Banks!

Where do I go after Banks?

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just finished State of the Art from Banks...another fine observation of humanity, although it was a short one...just begun Use of Weapons

I loved Use of Weapons. Be ready to concentrate really hard!

[inhuien]

Where do I go after Banks?

Have you considered Stephen Baxter?

[Omphalos]

Where do I go after Banks?

Have you considered Stephen Baxter?

Now there is a once big name that never gets discussed any more. Anyone read Flood?

[inhuien]

I haven't read that but I have read most of his early series "Xeelee" and a few others with Evolution waiting in the pile.

[Omphalos]

I haven't read that but I have read most of his early series "Xeelee" and a few others with Evolution waiting in the pile.

I read one of those Manifold books and just could not get into it, but I have read two Xeelee stories and thought they were fantastic. I've been meaning to pick up more. Seems like with Flood though the author has moved into mass market thrillers, kind of like Greg Bear did with Quantico.

[inhuien]

Ach well, as long as they're good reads well wrote, can't sat he hasn't paid his dues. Just remembered another one "transcendence" I think it's called about a coven of females living secretly under Rome for the last 2000 years, kind of a cross between Hellstorms Hive and Bene Gesserit themes an interesting book but then he penned 3 more of them which I've not read.

[Omphalos]

Ach well, as long as they're good reads well wrote, can't sat he hasn't paid his dues. Just remembered another one "transcendence" I think it's called about a coven of females living secretly under Rome for the last 2000 years, kind of a cross between Hellstorms Hive and Bene Gesserit themes an interesting book but then he penned 3 more of them which I've not read.

He's got some dinosaur books too that Ive never read.

[Rakis]

Just finished State of the Art from Banks...another fine observation of humanity, although it was a short one...just begun Use of Weapons

I loved Use of Weapons. Be ready to concentrate really hard!

Indeed. Like it very much so far...

[Liege-Killer]

I read one of those Manifold books and just could not get into it.....

I read one of those too..... pretty sure it was the first one, Manifold Time. Been a long time, don't remember too much about it. Seemed ok at the time, but nothing that inspired me to get more of his books.

[GamePlayer]

I finished reading The Player of Games from Banks...what can i say but...WOW !

Maybe one of the best book i read with God Emperor, simple as that...I liked two things in it : The subtle look at our present society and, for me, how the media in general play a role in making us desensitize towards abuse, violence and so on...

I also liked everything about the meaning of games in it. The part where they explained the game of Azad for the first time, it's meanings, the importance of it, the way Gurgeh reacted to it was just amazing the way it was written...I don't know where Banks' found that inspiration, but it's just mind boggling in it's complexity and meanings...The way Gurgeh played and think about the game reminded me of how a Mentat works toward making a Prime Projection in FH's books...and the humor in it is just so good, icing on the cake...

GP :I don't know if i should read Use of Weapons or State of the Art next, because i know the story in State of the Art precedes Use of Weapons...what do you recommend?

Whoops, somehow missed this one. I can see you already went ahead with "The State of the Art" and glad you liked it. You can't go wrong with Use of Weapons so I'm glad you're on that one. But really, you're ready for any of the other Culture novels at this point. Excession, Look to Windward, Inversions, etc. Just take your pick and enjoy.

It's really time for me to re-read some early Banks again, but only after I'm done Dune for the third or fourth time. I'm enjoying Frank's original so much again, I think I'm going to write a review when I'm done just for fun.

[Omphalos]

About 1/2 way through The Legacy of Heorot, by Niven and Pournelle. I also have about ten pages left of James Gunn's Alternate Worlds: The Illustrated History of Science Fiction. Its actually half-opinion, half-history. Its one of the best histories out there, and I really love the way Gunn states his observations about SF.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Finished The Left Hand of Darkness last night, great book. I should really track down more of her stuff.

Now a couple chapters into The Sunless Countries by Karl Schroeder. This one is supposed to be a deviation from the previous 3 books in the Virga universe, those were more pulp/adventure novels, this one is supposed to be back to the deep thinking style I love Schroeder for. We'll see.

[The Phantom]

I still have to give Left Hand a second try... read too much of it when i was drunk or tired last time so I still don't get it

currently reading Wells' The Food of the Gods .... dropped into my local used bookstore that has a huge SF/F collection and realized I only owned 2 Wells' books... bought 5-6 more

[Rakis]

Just finished Use of Weapons

I really liked it, but i have mixed feelings about some of Zakalwe's back stories, some i liked, others...meh...

But i really liked the finale and understanding what the hell happened to him and what the fuss was all about "the chair"

Taking a short brake (Girlfriend has to get her gallbladder removed, so will be busy with kids) and then going after the Excession

[SandChigger]

Excession!

Loves them Minds.

[Liege-Killer]

I also have about ten pages left of James Gunn's Alternate Worlds: The Illustrated History of Science Fiction. Its actually half-opinion, half-history. Its one of the best histories out there, and I really love the way Gunn states his observations about SF.

I was considering that recently myself, while browsing ebay. I passed it up at the time in favor of some other purchases. But now I'll definitely keep it in mind.

[Omphalos]

I also have about ten pages left of James Gunn's Alternate Worlds: The Illustrated History of Science Fiction. Its actually half-opinion, half-history. Its one of the best histories out there, and I really love the way Gunn states his observations about SF.

I was considering that recently myself, while browsing ebay. I passed it up at the time in favor of some other purchases. But now I'll definitely keep it in mind.

I know this sounds geeky, but I really cannot get some of the things that he was saying out of my mind. It all struck me so hard that even over a week after reading it I can visualize the page, the text and the page number. I think I should reread pp 212-215 each week until I can recite it.

[Rakis]

I also have about ten pages left of James Gunn's Alternate Worlds: The Illustrated History of Science Fiction. Its actually half-opinion, half-history. Its one of the best histories out there, and I really love the way Gunn states his observations about SF.

I was considering that recently myself, while browsing ebay. I passed it up at the time in favor of some other purchases. But now I'll definitely keep it in mind.

I know this sounds geeky, but I really cannot get some of the things that he was saying out of my mind. It all struck me so hard that even over a week after reading it I can visualize the page, the text and the page number. I think I should reread pp 212-215 each week until I can recite it.

Ok, now i'm curious...what's so special about pages 212 to 215 ?

[Omphalos]

I also have about ten pages left of James Gunn's Alternate Worlds: The Illustrated History of Science Fiction. Its actually half-opinion, half-history. Its one of the best histories out there, and I really love the way Gunn states his observations about SF.

I was considering that recently myself, while browsing ebay. I passed it up at the time in favor of some other purchases. But now I'll definitely keep it in mind.

I know this sounds geeky, but I really cannot get some of the things that he was saying out of my mind. It all struck me so hard that even over a week after reading it I can visualize the page, the text and the page number. I think I should reread pp 212-215 each week until I can recite it.

Ok, now i'm curious...what's so special about pages 212 to 215 ?

He gives a really interesting breakdown of the point of SF, and the differences between SF, fantasy and mainstream literature. He stated it eloquently and supported his points. I am going to write something about the book this weekend, and Ill quote some of that language.

[Rakis]

I also have about ten pages left of James Gunn's Alternate Worlds: The Illustrated History of Science Fiction. Its actually half-opinion, half-history. Its one of the best histories out there, and I really love the way Gunn states his observations about SF.

I was considering that recently myself, while browsing ebay. I passed it up at the time in favor of some other purchases. But now I'll definitely keep it in mind.

I know this sounds geeky, but I really cannot get some of the things that he was saying out of my mind. It all struck me so hard that even over a week after reading it I can visualize the page, the text and the page number. I think I should reread pp 212-215 each week until I can recite it.

Ok, now i'm curious...what's so special about pages 212 to 215 ?

He gives a really interesting breakdown of the point of SF, and the differences between SF, fantasy and mainstream literature. He stated it eloquently and supported his points. I am going to write something about the book this weekend, and Ill quote some of that language.

Kewl. Thanks

[Liege-Killer]

Ok, now i'm curious...what's so special about pages 212 to 215 ?

Probably those are the pages showing photos of old pulp magazines with near-naked chicks on the covers.

[Omphalos]

Ok, now i'm curious...what's so special about pages 212 to 215 ?

Probably those are the pages showing photos of old pulp magazines with near-naked chicks on the covers.

That's pages 2-211

[A Thing of Eternity]

I just started We by Yevgeny Zamyatin last night. So far it's giving me a very similar vibe as Brave New World

[inhuien]

I'm half way through a collection of shorts by Alastair Reynolds called Galactic North set in his Revelation Space-verse. It's a cracking read. If anyone's not read him have a looksee, he's up there with Iain M. Banks with perhaps more of a hard edge.

Speaking of Banks I noticed that his new contemporary novel is out in hardback so hopefully he's busy writing us all a new Culture opus.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I've read a fair bit of Reynolds, I don't think he's that close to Banks as far as overall skill goes, but he is pretty good. I like a lot of his tech.

[SandChigger]

I can't remember now if I've read anything besides Revelation Space.

I really liked it up until the end, which seemed a little too dicey ex machina.

I've seen this Galactic North collection advertised, have wondered about getting it and giving him another go....

[Rakis]

Speaking of Banks I noticed that his new contemporary novel is out in hardback so hopefully he's busy writing us all a new Culture opus.

[SandChigger]

It's going to take him a while to follow Matter, don't you think?

[inhuien]

I really liked it up until the end, which seemed a little too dicey ex machina.

Shooting from the hip here, but if memory servers the ex machina moment is more a reveal than a conclusion. Perhaps someone can support or refute this.

[SandChigger]

Ahp, like as.

I just remember being pissed off enough (at the time) at not learning more about the evil ancient aliens and the prospect of YET ANOTHER TRILOGY that I didn't get the next book in the series. And still haven't.

(I still haven't gone back to finish the Praxis series, either. And then there's Olympos, which put me off me Simmons for about two years. I'm finicky. )

[A Thing of Eternity]

I'm still wading through We, for some reason it has turned into a very slow read for me. Good book though, I love really old SF/Utopia stories, they have a ring of truth to them that I don't see much in modern books. I think it might be because the authors at that time were writing what they were truly afraid of.

[inhuien]

Just got "World War Z" out on loan from the library, I'll read that when I'm done with G-north. How is Simmons? I seen some of his books on the shelf today.

[inhuien]

...the prospect of YET ANOTHER TRILOGY that I didn't get the next book in the series. And still haven't.

IKWYM. It would be nice, just once in a while to read a book that has an ending. I know I'm a sucker for my Pratchett and King but at least their books conclude at page 399, oh and Banks and et al.

I hate it when I end a post arguing with myself, I thought that was what the wife was for.

[Rakis]

Anyone (besides L-K) read Transition from Banks? Was thinking of reading this after the Culture series...

[inhuien]

No I've not read it, but I have read about half of his non-scifi output and they were all very enjoyable in their own way. I would say he not as consistently excellent with notable lows, IMO, being the likes of Whit and Complicity, but the premiss sounds interesting and I was thinking of reading it soon myself.

[Liege-Killer]

Oh yeah, Transition..... here's my review if anyone's interested. It's very strange, I thought. One of those books I can't quite make up my mind about. My initial feeling upon finishing was that it was pretty poor. Then after thinking about it some more, I thought it was fairly ingenious. Then later I went back to thinking it was just so-so. Anyone ever felt that way about a book?

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just got "World War Z" out on loan from the library, I'll read that when I'm done with G-north. How is Simmons? I seen some of his books on the shelf today.

Hyperion was killer, the second book less so, and that's all I've read from Simmons.

[Nekhrun]

Got a few days off so my first read on the airplane is going to be The World of Karl Pilkington.
I've been trying not to open it for the last couple days.

[Rakis]

It's going to take him a while to follow Matter, don't you think?

Bump !

There's something on Amazon about a new Culture novel for september 2010

http://www.amazon.ca/New-Culture-Novel- ... 18&sr=1-12

[Serkanner]

It's going to take him a while to follow Matter, don't you think?

Bump !

There's something on Amazon about a new Culture novel for september 2010

http://www.amazon.ca/New-Culture-Novel- ... 18&sr=1-12

That is about the same time as Throw-up on Dune will be released. I wonder which one will get better reviews.

[SandChigger]

What was it that one nitwit called it the other day on DN, The Thrown of Dune? Let's just add an (Up) in there.


If we're taking bets, my money's on the Banks.

[Rakis]

Just finished Excession...really,really liked it ...was actually sad when it was over ...SO fascinating those Minds talking to each other. Maybe the most Trekkish of the novels so far (in a good way)...Moving to Look to Windward...

Meatfucker...

Love them names...

[SandChigger]

I'd forgotten that one.

Have to start using it more often.

(Any word on GP yet? )

[Omphalos]

I saw a few postings over at Jacurutu since Eyes was asking about him.

[SandChigger]

Really? I must have missed them then. The board here says "Last visited:Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:25 am".

[Omphalos]

Hmm. Over there too. The 16th. Guess I saw some old posts in revivified threads. I dropped him an e-mail a few weeks ago then saw those posts the next day. Guess I assumed that they were new without really looking at the dates. My bad.

[SandChigger]

I was going to suggest that you email him, since you could get his address from the board. He never replied, I take it?

[Hunchback Jack]

Can't tell you how pleased I am to see so many enthusiastic Banks readers here.

HBJ

[SandChigger]

I think I've got one or two of his science fiction books left to read. Still debating whether to start with the non.

[Robspierre]

I have The New Space Opera 1 & 2 on my desk at the moment.

Rob

[Liege-Killer]

I have The New Space Opera 1 & 2 on my desk at the moment.

Hey, I've got the first one too. I've had it for a while in my short pile of stuff to read in the very near future, but other stuff keeps getting ahead of it. I'll get to it soon.

[Omphalos]

The Death of Captain Future, which I think is in book I, is one of my favorite comedy pieces in SF.

Ive been meaning to read those books too.

[Omphalos]

Just started a long form SF poem called Aniara, by Harry Martinsen. Its translated from Swedish. It may be the best thing that I have read so far this year - maybe in years. The rumor is that this poem won Martinsen the 1975 Nobel Prize in Literature. I cant wait to finish this thing and share it with you guys.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Cooooooool. Glad the translation is good, my experiences with translated poetry have not been good (Dante's Inferno for example).

[SandChigger]

Kan du inte läsa svenska?

(Jag kan, en lilla. )

[A Thing of Eternity]

Kan du inte läsa svenska?

(Jag kan, en lilla. )

Weird, that's close enough to english that I actually understood what you said. Closer than German even. Weird.

And no, I can't speak it, not even a "little" like you kan.

[Omphalos]

I was very close with a Swedish speaking Finn once. I was head over heels for her and I picked up some of it then. Sweedish was cool and made a lot of sense. Finnish? I just understood words and could piece what was being said to me roughly.

[Liege-Killer]

Let us know how that goes. I've never read an sf poem I liked, for whatever reason.

[Omphalos]

Let us know how that goes. I've never read an sf poem I liked, for whatever reason.

Absolutely I will. This thing is just so good. Most SF poems are total shit. But Ive been reading about a bunch in Barron's SF guide lately that I want to acquire. This is supposed to be the best.

[Freakzilla]

I started reading Erewhon but have gotten really bored with the journey through the mountains... I'll keep at it though.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I started reading Erewhon but have gotten really bored with the journey through the mountains... I'll keep at it though.

I'm still hunting for a copy.

[Freakzilla]

I started reading Erewhon but have gotten really bored with the journey through the mountains... I'll keep at it though.

I'm still hunting for a copy.

I downloaded it: http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/

[SandChigger]

I started reading Erewhon but have gotten really bored with the journey through the mountains... I'll keep at it though.

Rather than dive right into the story while I was back home, I decided to read the intro. BIG mistake. Put me right to sleep every night.

Not that I needed much help after running around, cutting on the jungle outside, cleaning a year's worth of dust and other crap inside, messing with the sump pumps and stuff in the under-house hole, etc etc etc.

I finally finished it after I got back over here. Put it aside will browsing some other stuff, like that Graham Moroccan travelogue from 1898. Actually read some more last night. I'm finally over the mountains and properly into Erewhon now.

(Freak, keep at it: the women have perfect breasts! )

[Freakzilla]

I started reading Erewhon but have gotten really bored with the journey through the mountains... I'll keep at it though.

Rather than dive right into the story while I was back home, I decided to read the intro. BIG mistake. Put me right to sleep every night.

Not that I needed much help after running around, cutting on the jungle outside, cleaning a year's worth of dust and other crap inside, messing with the sump pumps and stuff in the under-house hole, etc etc etc.

I finally finished it after I got back over here. Put it aside will browsing some other stuff, like that Graham Moroccan travelogue from 1898. Actually read some more last night. I'm finally over the mountains and properly into Erewhon now.

(Freak, keep at it: the women have perfect breasts! )

I skipped the intro. Thanks for the tip, I think I might make it now!

[Omphalos]

(Freak, keep at it: the women have perfect breasts! )

I have the illustrated version from Easton Press.

[SandChigger]

Ooh! Scanny-scan-scan!

[A Thing of Eternity]

About halfway through Haldeman's There is No Darkness right now. I really need to get my hands on more of his books.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Just started Fahrenheit 451 for the first time.

[Omphalos]

Just began re-reading all of my Walking Dead omnibi, as vol. 5 is going to ship to me today.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I just started Card's Treason yesterday, I was a little hesitant because the guy is such an idiot, but he seems to be a pretty good writer so far.

[inhuien]

Just stated Fallen Dragon by Peter F. Hamilton, I'm not expecting greatness just a good ride. Hopefully I'll be able to find Hyperion at one of the local libraries soon.

[Omphalos]

Started a reread of When Worlds Collide. But Ive been on vacation and dont even have the energy to pick the book up in the evening. Its going slow.

[Freakzilla]

Recently read (in no particular order):

Invasion - Robin Cook
The Texas Isreali War: 1999 - Howard Saunders & Jake Waldrop
Gateway - Frederick Pohl
The Forever War - Joe Haldeman
Revelation Space - Alastair Reynolds
Hyperion - Dan Simmons
The Mote in God's Eye - Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle
Moving Mars - Greg Bear
Old Man's War - John Scalzi
The Player of Games - Ian M Banks (Twice)
A Canticle For Leibowitz - Walter M Miller
The Terror - Dan Simmons



One thing that reading all those books recently made me realize... what a talentless hack Kevin J Anderson is.

[Omphalos]

Well, well. Look what the dog dragged in.

An extremely hearty welcome back my friend. Hope you find I kept your home safe and the fire lit, over there at Jacurutu.

[Freakzilla]

Well, well. Look what the dog dragged in.

An extremely hearty welcome back my friend. Hope you find I kept your home safe and the fire lit, over there at Jacurutu.

I appreciate it, thank you. Looks like we got about a dozen new members over there!

[inhuien]

Recently read (in no particular order):

Invasion - Robin Cook
The Texas Isreali War: 1999 - Howard Saunders & Jake Waldrop
Gateway - Frederick Pohl
The Forever War - Joe Haldeman
Revelation Space - Alastair Reynolds
Hyperion - Dan Simmons
The Mote in God's Eye - Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle
Moving Mars - Greg Bear
Old Man's War - John Scalzi
The Player of Games - Ian M Banks (Twice)
A Canticle For Leibowitz - Walter M Miller
The Terror - Dan Simmons



One thing that reading all those books recently made me realize... what a talentless hack Kevin J Anderson is.

That's a fine list of novels there, some I've read and some I'd like to. TPoG, twice. Why?

[Freakzilla]

TPoG, twice. Why?

This may sound like insanity but...

I read all the books y'all sent to me and I had only a few days left and was having a hard time trying to think of which one of those to read again.

That day I got a second copy of TPoG in the mail.

So...



Honestly, I didn't think the story was that good but it was very well written.

[SandChigger]

Is that your first/only Culture novel?

[Freakzilla]

Is that your first/only Culture novel?

Yes. It didn't really tell me a lot about the Culture. It seemed to be an impossibly perfect paradise and felt awkward.

In the back it had an extra chapter from Matter, that looked interesting. I liked his writing, I guess I need to figure out the order of the books and start at the beging.

[A Thing of Eternity]

His books are kind like Cohen brothers movies, sometimes they leave you sitting there thinking "what???", but they're well done.

I'd recommend use of weapons, that's a good'r.

[SandChigger]

Ahp. Liked Matter, too.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Somehow forgot about that one...

[Freakzilla]

So are they all just kind of random stories that happen in the Culture?

[inhuien]

Essentially, Yes. They are all in the same broad story arc but can be enjoyed (you hear that, ENJOYED!! ) in isolation to one another.

[inhuien]

I've just blown the dust off of Simmons' Ilium, this is my 1st book of his and I'm looking forward to it. 50 pages in and I'm really enjoying his style and the story lines so far revealed, I think this is going to turn out to be a very special book.

[SandChigger]

I loved it.

[Freakzilla]

Is it set in "The Culture"?

[A Thing of Eternity]

Is it set in "The Culture"?

Yes.

[SandChigger]

I'm confoosed now.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I was at first too.

[inhuien]

It's just a jump to the left...

[SandChigger]

Oh no, NOT the Timewarp agaaaaaaaaaaaaaain!!!

[Freakzilla]

[Hunchback Jack]

IIRC, Consider Phlebas was published first, but I've heard that Player of Games is a better novel to read first, since it introduces aspects of the Culture more clearly. Banks wrote it first too, I think.

I actually read Use of Weapons first, which is my personal favourite.

HBJ

[Freakzilla]

Fans of Simmons' The Terror may find this interesting...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100729/ap_ ... ship_found

[SandChigger]

Cool!

(Literally. )

That's the really cool (again) thing about both The Terror and Drood: the RESEARCH Simmons obviously put into them, and how he wove his stories around the historical facts. You know he did more than just take a cruise and ham-fist the ambience into a recorder.

[Freakzilla]

Simmons' ambience will give you frostbite and scurvy.

[SandChigger]

Yeah. And I read that one slowly, starting in mid- or late December, IIRC. Brrrrrrrr!

[Omphalos]

Just started Messiah, by Gore Vidal.

[inhuien]

Anyone round these parts read Joe Abercrombie, I've been given a strong recommendation from a trusted source. What do you guy think of him?

[SadisticCynic]

I haven't read any of his yet, but like you I've received strong recommendation, especially for his First Law series.