Known Galach words

[SandChigger]

Just a few that leapt out at me, looking through the "Terminology". We'll have to distinguish standard Galach from Arrakeen dialect and Fremen.

aumas (dial. chaumas): poison administered in solid food.

chaumurky (dial. musky or murky): poison administered in a drink.

kanly: formal feud or vendetta under the rules of the Great Convention carried on according to the strictest limitations.

khala: traditional invocation to still the angry spirits of a place whose name you mention.

kull wahad (Gal or NeoArab?): "I am profoundly stirred!" A sincere exclamation of surprise common in the Imperium. Strict interpretation depends on context.

na-: a prefix meaning "nominated" or "next in line." Thus: na-Baron means heir apparent to a barony. (< AmE pron. of "no(minated)"?)

out-freyn: "immediately foreign"; i.e., not of your immediate community, not of the select. (freyn < "foreign"?)

outrine: "something apart from the main body that is of the same or similar stuff"

Richece: Houses Minor

Please add other candidates in successive comments!

[chanilover]

Did you ever establish whether Seru-Groanian was a dialect of Galach?

[Freakzilla]

Just a few that leapt out at me, looking through the "Terminology". We'll have to distinguish standard Galach from Arrakeen dialect and Fremen.

The Fremen speak Chakobsa, don't they? I don't think there was a Fremen language.

[SandChigger]

The Fremen speak Chakobsa, don't they? I don't think there was a Fremen language.

I think you're right, in that I don't think you're wrong.

I think I had it in my head that Fremen = anything remotely Arabic-looking as I was glancing through the Terminology there earlier.

(Even though I know or should know better, I get pretty sloppy with my language sometimes. Always a good idea to check like this. Thanks! )

[SandChigger]

Did you ever establish whether Seru-Groanian was a dialect of Galach?

YOU we will deal with later.




When I grabbed a copy of the thread over there, I noticed that you did almost exactly this same thing on the DN BBS back in July. Bring up Seruk Anus and his silliness, I mean. You're incorrigible.

[Freakzilla]

The Fremen speak Chakobsa, don't they? I don't think there was a Fremen language.

I think you're right, in that I don't think you're wrong.

I think I had it in my head that Fremen = anything remotely Arabic-looking as I was glancing through the Terminology there earlier.

(Even though I know or should know better, I get pretty sloppy with my language sometimes. Always a good idea to check like this. Thanks! )

I would assume most of the Fremen words used are Chakobsa:

To Paul, the words were gibberish, but out of her Bene Gesserit training,
Jessica recognized the speech. It was Chakobsa, one of the ancient hunting
languages, and the man above them was saying that perhaps these were the
strangers they sought.

...

CHAKOBSA: the so-called "magnetic language" derived in part from the ancient
Bhotani (Bhotani Jib -- jib meaning dialect). A collection of ancient dialects
modified by needs of secrecy, but chiefly the hunting language of the Bhotani,
the hired assassins of the first Wars of Assassins.

[Freakzilla]

The Fremen speak Chakobsa, don't they? I don't think there was a Fremen language.

I think you're right, in that I don't think you're wrong.

I think I had it in my head that Fremen = anything remotely Arabic-looking as I was glancing through the Terminology there earlier.

(Even though I know or should know better, I get pretty sloppy with my language sometimes. Always a good idea to check like this. Thanks! )

I would assume most of the Fremen words used are Chakobsa:

To Paul, the words were gibberish, but out of her Bene Gesserit training,
Jessica recognized the speech. It was Chakobsa, one of the ancient hunting
languages, and the man above them was saying that perhaps these were the
strangers they sought.

...

CHAKOBSA: the so-called "magnetic language" derived in part from the ancient
Bhotani (Bhotani Jib -- jib meaning dialect). A collection of ancient dialects
modified by needs of secrecy, but chiefly the hunting language of the Bhotani,
the hired assassins of the first Wars of Assassins.

Wouldn't that fist quote be a contradiction? I thought the Atreides Battle Language was Chakobsa too.

"Here she comes now," he said, shifting to Atreides battle language as a
warning.
Ghanima nodded to her aunt as Alia stopped in front of them, said: "A spoil
of war greets her illustrious relative." Using the same Chakobsa language,
Ghanima emphasized the meaning of her own name -- Spoil of War.

Paul certainly knew the Atreides battle language.

Frank, you're busted.

[Omphalos]

According to Stilgar, Paul did not learn the "Chakobsa Way" until he began to become addicted to spice. This is one of the chapter epigrams:

Muad'Dib tells us in "A Time of Reflection" that his first collisions with Arrakeen necessities were the true beginnings of his education. He learned then how to pole the sand for its weather, learned the language of the wind's needles stinging his skin, learned how the nose can buzz with sand-itch and how to gather his body's precious moisture around him to guard it and preserve it. As his eyes assumed the blue of the Ibad, he learned the Chakobsa way. -Stilgar's preface to "Muad'Dib, the Man" by the Princess Irulan

Not directly on point, and it still doesnt answer the question of why Paul does not know the root of Atreides battle language when he hears it, but it does suggest that Herbert recognized the problem you noted above, Freak.

But there is also this, where Paul obviously understands Atreides battle language.

Jessica found the tiny receiver Idaho had left for them, flipped its switch. A green light glowed on the instrument's face. Tinny screeching came from its speaker. She reduced the volume, hunted across the bands. A voice speaking Atreides battle language came into the tent.

" . . . back and regroup at the ridge. Fedor reports no survivors in Carthag
and the Guild Bank has been sacked."

Carthag! Jessica thought. That was a Harkonnen hotbed.

"They're Sardaukar," the voice said. "Watch out for Sardaukar in Atreides
uniforms. They're . . . " A roaring filled the speaker, then silence.

"Try the other bands," Paul said.

"Do you realize what that means?" Jessica asked.

"I expected it. They want the Guild to blame us for destruction of their bank. With the Guild against us, we're trapped on Arrakis. Try the other bands."

Herbert also describes a "battle language" as "any special language of restricted etymology developed for clear-speech communication in warfare." I have never heard the phrase "restricted etymology" before, but could he have meant that the parent language only contributed small parts to the child? That it was so limited in contribution, and possibly so changed by time that the actual parent, which the Fremen were probably still speaking if not in a pure way, then one that had changed in different ways, so that they had become unrecognizable to one who didnt know the root langauge?

[SandChigger]

Yeah, "restricted etymology" is Frank's creation.

A battle language is not going to be a full language, only a small subset.

I've been trying to find the meaning of "hunting language." Where did I read that it's not what it seems—that is, a language used by someone hunting—but instead the language used by a group of people when they were fleeing/in exile/being hunted. Is that from the Encyclopedia? Or, GAWD help us, from the new books?!

Anyway, Chakobsa is a fuller, more developed tongue than the Atreides battle language.

[Omphalos]

I think FH used "hunting language" and "assassin's language" when describing Bhotani and Chaksoba, but IIRC the uses were intermittent and changed in context.

I always kind of simplified it in my mind and thought that "hunter" was used alternatively with "assassin," as in an assassin hunting its prey.

But now that you mention it, I think that there was something like you mentioned in the DE. Damned 'f I know where in that book though.

[chanilover]

Did you ever establish whether Seru-Groanian was a dialect of Galach?

YOU we will deal with later.




When I grabbed a copy of the thread over there, I noticed that you did almost exactly this same thing on the DN BBS back in July. Bring up Seruk Anus and his silliness, I mean. You're incorrigible.

I thought he would be the ideal partner for this project, as you both got on so well together. Didn't you describe his language for the Seru Empire as ill-conceived drivel, or something along those lines?

Oh, and if I remember rightly, there is a quote from a dictionary in one of the Dune books where they give the pronunciation of melange. It looks like the Galach for "melange" is "melange", so you can add that to your list.

How come you get your own area of the forum, anyway? Not fair, I want one too.

[Omphalos]

The "Britney Spears attack forum?" Not what I had in mind when I started the place.

[Nekhrun]

Don't forget that you came up with a word for scrotum already.

[Omphalos]

Don't forget that you came up with a word for scrotum already.

I did? What pearl did I give for that (pun intended)?

Oh! Yea! I cant remember anything except for Hyppo getting pissed at me. <snicker!>

[SandChigger]

Yes, nacnud, I believe it was.

The etymology will be a bitch.

[Omphalos]

Ah, yes. Nacnud.

[chanilover]

The "Britney Spears attack forum?" Not what I had in mind when I started the place.

Yay! Or maybe a whole Pop Princesses forum, where I can discuss the latest news with...um, maybe not.

Did you hear that she fucked her latest paparazzi boyfriend in the changing room of a clothes store before walking out of the cubicle into the store stark naked and telling the assistants to fuck off.

Anyway, this Galach thing. What was that word "outrine" which I read in one of the books?

[SandChigger]

Anyway, this Galach thing. What was that word "outrine" which I read in one of the books?

Something one of my students would write for "outline"?

Actually...NFI. (No Franking Idea)

Shows up twice, only in Children:

Through it all there were conversations in a hundred or more dialects of Galach interspersed with harsh gutturals and squeaks of outrine languages which were gathered under the Holy Imperium.

"Salusa swarms with outrine relatives, all working upon Farad'n, hoping for a share in his return to power."

I've never been able to find any non-Dune usage; can't remember if I've checked the big Oxfords at work or not; will try to do so Monday.

I've always figured (when I've thought about it) that it's derived from outré or some other Franch thang.

Since it's not normal (modern?) English and *is* used in a direct quote, shall we include it in Late Imperial Galach?

[SandChigger]

Did you ever establish whether Seru-Groanian was a dialect of Galach?

Sorry...never gave you a seru-ous (serious?) answer to this, did I?

Ahem...The Linguist says:

While some few similarities may be noted by the casual observer in phonology and lexis, there is no relation between the two languages and, indeed, Seru-Groanian is more properly characterized as a dialect of either drivel or infantile babbling. 8)

[Omphalos]

Outrine is prbably a derivative of a French word that is used in French politics to describe French soil outside the motherland, such as Devil's Island and French Polynesia. I think that the root is "outremer," which literally means "overseas."

In the context of those two quotes FH morphed the meaning a bit, but kept the spirit of the word to mean something apart from the main body that is of the same or similar stuff.

[SandChigger]

Thanks! Duly noted!


Afterthought: how do you think it should be pronounced? In my head it's

oot-REEN

but I guess some people might "hear" it as

out-RHINE

[Omphalos]

Thanks! Duly noted!


Afterthought: how do you think it should be pronounced? In my head it's

oot-REEN

but I guess some people might "hear" it as

out-RHINE

When I say it in my head its closer to your first.

ou-Tren

with the e in "trene" being long.

The first syllable is as in a hard Scottish "get out ("oot") of my house ("hoose")!" type of pronounciation. However, Im not sure how the French pronounce outremer. I imagine its ou-tre-me, with a soft "r" on the end. Kind of like that silent "r" that they have. CL probalby can give us better hints on this.

[chanilover]

It would be ootremer, with both 'r's being hard. The silent 'r' in words ending in 'er' is only for verbs. The 'mer' in 'outremer' means 'sea'.

Do I get a prize for finding a Galach word? I like 'nacnud', I'm going to start using that word.

[Liege-Killer]

I think I had it in my head that Fremen = anything remotely Arabic-looking as I was glancing through the Terminology there earlier.

To bring up the Dune Encyclopedia again (for whatever weight you want to give it), it has the Fremen language descending from Arabic, or as it phrases it, "the original tongue of the Islamic faith."

Also, the DE has aumas, chaumurky, and related words being borrowed into Fremen from a people they were in contact with, the "dilaubite miners of Rima."

[SandChigger]

Now that I have it in all its solid heft (it's sitting on the tatami beside me as I type), I am truly overwhelmed by the DE. Impressive...but still fanfic. I hesitate to use anything from it (as is), because I don't want to commit to accepting it in its entirety.

It would be great if there were some way of determining what elements were inspired by things FH told WMcN.

Anyway, one thing I thought was neat was way the DE has the Fremen language being revitalized when their wild RMs became able to access their OM and discovered just how far their daily vernacular had changed from the ancient language (Arabic). Reminded me somewhat of Ben-Yehuda and the revival of Hebrew.

Aumas and chaumurky into Fremen, hmm. I'll have a look at that. (Are they protrayed as Galach words that came into Fremen via that route, or as original to the Riman miners?)

[Liege-Killer]

Anyway, one thing I thought was neat was way the DE has the Fremen language being revitalized when their wild RMs became able to access their OM and discovered just how far their daily vernacular had changed from the ancient language (Arabic).

That was pretty awesome, actually. Just think how many linguists would love to have access to OM!

Aumas and chaumurky into Fremen, hmm. I'll have a look at that. (Are they protrayed as Galach words that came into Fremen via that route, or as original to the Riman miners?)

It was a little vague as to whether the miners spoke Galach. There was a reference to "the Blue Hill speech of the Rima miners." Make of that what you will. Could be a dialect of Galach maybe. Who knows?

[SandChigger]

Just think how many linguists would love to have access to OM!

Yes, please!

[chanilover]

There are a few words used by non-Fremen characters in the books which I suppose must be Galach, so you can add those to your list -

kanly
khala
kull wahad

etc
(look them up in the terminology section of Dune if you like)

[SandChigger]

Cheers. I've added them to the list in the OP.

I'm a little suspicious of "Kull wahad", even though it is used throughout the Imperium; it looks more like Arabic....

[chanilover]

Kull wahad may come from Arabic, but it's used by Hypalia, sorry, Mohiam when Paul survives the test with the box. There are plenty of words in English which originally come from Arabic (alcove, algebra etc) so I'd think Galach would absorb numerous Arabic words and phrases with all the mixing of cultures that would happen.

You need to go through the terminology section of Dune and pick out all the obvious non-Fremen words which appear and are likely to be Galach. I only posted those three words as examples. Others I can think of are-

adab
the ayat and burhan of life
tahaddi challenge
the amtal rule

and so on.

[SandChigger]

Right, I just meant I wanted to distinguish more or less obvious loanwords from those more "native" to the language.