The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

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The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby D Pope » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:40 pm

The following timeline is cherry picked from interviews, i'll edit as nessesary.

1999: Afterword from Dune: House Atreides, Brian Herbert wrote:I received a telephone call from an estate lawyer who had handled matters involving my mother and father. He informed me that two safety deposit boxes belonging to Frank Herbert had turned up in a suburb of Seattle, boxes that none of us knew existed.


An Interview With Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson wrote: (KJA)THEN the Herbert estate lawyer called to say he had discovered an old safe deposit box key that had belonged to Frank.
http://www.wormholebook.com/interviews/brian_kevin.htm


Ian Ascher, Int, KJA Before book#90 wrote:
Mere days after I had returned home, and after we'd already decided what we wanted to write, the Herbert Estate lawyer called Brian, saying he had found a key to a safe deposit box that he hadn't known was in Frank Herbert's files.
http://web.archive.org/web/200707032136 ... erson.html


July 1999 by Crescent Blues, Kevin J. Anderson: Pumped on Dune wrote:...that's when Brian, by digging through all the stuff we had on Dune, came upon the key to the safe deposit where he found the [Dune 7] outline.
http://www.crescentblues.com/2_5issue/anderson.shtml


January Magazine // 2000, The Sons of Dune,by Linda Richards wrote:BH:Two weeks after that a safety deposit box appeared that had been missing for 11 years and it just seemed very kharmic. But I think it was my mother involved because she was in touch with other realms. In fact, she would tell dad when it was safe to travel and when it wasn't and various other things. She could find things that were lost: she was definitely in touch. And I think my mother was telling me that it was OK. That this was the right team to do the project. I really believe that.
http://januarymagazine.com/profiles/duneprofile.html



2001 Frank Herbert Lives by Byron Merritt wrote:Two weeks after that phone call Brian found himself, along with an estate attorney and the bank manager, covering their ears as two safety deposit boxes were drilled open for lack of any keys.
http://www.sffworld.com/authors/m/merri ... ives1.html


Writers Write (Sept/Oct 2003) KJA interview wrote: The attorney called up and said "I've just found these two safe deposit box keys in Frank Herbert's old files."
http://www.writerswrite.com/journal/oct03/anderson.htm


5 January 2004 Bryon Merritt interviews Brian Herbert wrote: Even though she (Beverly Herbert ) died in 1984, I am certain that she guided me to meet Kevin J. Anderson in 1997, and that she approved of us as a writing team enough to show us where to find missing notes that were needed to resume the Dune series.
Science Fiction Weekly Issue 350
http://www.syfy.com/sfw/issue350/interview.html


February 29, 2004 Inoculator9, dune2k KJA interview wrote:Brian received a call from the estate lawyer about newly discovered safe-deposit boxes.
http://forum.dune2k.com/index.php?topic=13650.0


amazon.com, 2004, Before Dune After Frank Herbert wrote:Herbert: Years after my father passed away we got a call from the attorney who handled his estate, saying that they'd found two safe-deposit keys.
Herbert: Dad always called my mother a "white witch." Then, after Kevin and I met, I got the call about the safe-deposit boxes. Then I found the notes. I felt that my mom was making sure Kevin and I got along and was watching over me.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/fe ... 28-5924624


August 2009,AMCfilmcritic.com,Brian Herbert on Flipping the Myth of Jihad wrote:Then I got a call from an estate attorney who asked me what I wanted to do with two safety deposit boxes of my dad's.
http://www.filmcritic.com/features/2009 ... -interview


April 8, 2009 by SebastianPiccione, Project Fanboy, KJA wrote: Brian found some items he (Frank) had left in a safe deposit box, including computer disks containing his last outline, for Dune 7.
http://www.projectfanboy.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3006


edit; added Jan 2000, Sons of Dune
edit; added second line to amazon 2004'white witch'
Last edited by D Pope on Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:26 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Freakzilla » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:45 pm

I feel a blaze of glory coming...
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
will fall upon you because of your innocent mistakes.

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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby D Pope » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:50 pm

First off, i'm pretty bummed that out of all the stuff collected I can only find these eleven quotes.

Second, the stats;
finding the box(s);
a call from a lawyer 8
ambiguously found 2
help from beyond 1

how many boxes;
One box, 4
two boxes, 6
(one reference to his mothers approval)

Third, misc;
Naturally the story 'tightens up' over time. It's still noteworthy that after 2004 I can only find two instances where the bank box is mentioned and those thinly disagree on the number of boxes.
There are two stand alone discrepancies, Byron asserts no keys were found and Kevin says A key was found in the box of notes Brian had.
Brian, pretty consistantly, holds to two keys. Kevin, half the time, tells of one key.

In conclusion, Brian is much more believable, always says there'a a lawyer. Kevin is all over the place, one key, two keys, found in a box, found by a lawyer. Byron only has the one chance to contribute, so he totally blows the story with no keys.

Brian: too simple to have more than one story.
Kevin: too conceited to bother with the party line.
Byron: Too much of a liability to be allowed out much.
Beverly: we can only guess.

edit; as I find more to add, these findings will be increasingly inaccurate
Last edited by D Pope on Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Omphalos » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:55 pm

Good work, my man!
Something is about to happen, Hal. Something wonderful!

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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby D Pope » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:10 pm

Thanks guys. Unfortunately, my conclusions are all fluff. There are no answers.
However, I think this list will live on as a quick reference for all to use.
I hope y'all have some better ideas about looking at this stuff than I had.

Next I want to do the contents, outline & notes, but i'm open to suggestions.
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby D Pope » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:48 pm

BTW, hearty 'atta boys to SandRider & HBJack! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Omphalos » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:56 pm

I don't think that pointing out vast inconsistencies in the facts they have stated is "fluff." I think it goes to the heart of the matter; whether they are lying or not. True, it does not point to what the specific truth is, but I think it is enlightening.
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby D Pope » Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:09 pm

I had really hoped that once we could compare all the stuff, a nice pattern would emerge pointing at what we could assume were facts. I just meant fluff as in preachin to the choir, we all know they're full of it.
Still, while there isn't enough here to be sure, I think Kevin exposes himself to be a casual liar; what ever fits the moment, no thoughts of consequenses or continuity.

Boy, I missed the mark. What I mean to say is thanks.

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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Nekhrun » Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:47 pm

Excellent work. I do think this is Blaze worthy, but I think you should wait Azllizkaerf and include the discrepancies between how many pages they say the notes are. I believe the range is somewhere between 1-3000 pages.
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Freakzilla » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:21 am

Nekhrun wrote:Excellent work. I do think this is Blaze worthy, but I think you should wait Azllizkaerf and include the discrepancies between how many pages they say the notes are. I believe the range is somewhere between 1-3000 pages.


Good idea, but I think you're confusing "The Outline" and "The Notes". The outline has varied from "complete and detailed" to "a roadmap". I don't think the boxes of notes they claim to have found has varied much in quantity or quality.
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby D Pope » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:41 am

Freakzilla wrote:
Nekhrun wrote:Excellent work. I do think this is Blaze worthy, but I think you should wait Azllizkaerf and include the discrepancies between how many pages they say the notes are. I believe the range is somewhere between 1-3000 pages.


Good idea, but I think you're confusing "The Outline" and "The Notes". The outline has varied from "complete and detailed" to "a roadmap". I don't think the boxes of notes they claim to have found has varied much in quantity or quality.


That's what i'd like to do next, just off the top of my head I remember reading,
'one page, no, three page, well, one & a half page outline'
'30 page outline'
'we've added to the outline'
The numbers of notes vary, 1000, 1500, 3000, to the now popular thousands, and their content SEEMS to vary as well from Dune background to an implied preequal specific.
It's only in one instance so far but Byron says the boxes contained two floppies, a secret number of pages labeled Dune 7, and recipies. It's easy to dismiss the recipies till you see the KJA quote calling the notes and outline a cookbook.
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby merkin muffley » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:00 am

Freakzilla wrote:I feel a blaze of glory coming...


Awesome. Douse the truck in gasoline.

D Pope wrote:It's only in one instance so far but Byron says the boxes contained two floppies, a secret number of pages labeled Dune 7, and recipies. It's easy to dismiss the recipies till you see the KJA quote calling the notes and outline a cookbook.


What!? How to Serve Dune? IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby D Pope » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:03 am

Nekhrun wrote:Excellent work. I do think this is Blaze worthy, but I think you should wait Azllizkaerf and include the discrepancies between how many pages they say the notes are. I believe the range is somewhere between 1-3000 pages.

One of my goals for this project is to provide an easy reference for questions like this. A somewhat narrow focus should keep the content low enough so a searcher isn't overwhelmed.
With that in mind, I have no qualms about doing an expanded version.

As far as this qualifying for a Blaze, i'd want a definition first. I feel more like the guy who distributes ammo to soldiers than the fellow who made the case for Capones tax evasion.
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Nekhrun » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:05 am

D Pope wrote:
Nekhrun wrote:Excellent work. I do think this is Blaze worthy, but I think you should wait Azllizkaerf and include the discrepancies between how many pages they say the notes are. I believe the range is somewhere between 1-3000 pages.

One of my goals for this project is to provide an easy reference for questions like this. A somewhat narrow focus should keep the content low enough so a searcher isn't overwhelmed.
With that in mind, I have no qualms about doing an expanded version.

As far as this qualifying for a Blaze, i'd want a definition first. I feel more like the guy who distributes ammo to soldiers than the fellow who made the case for Capones tax evasion.

You're doing great work. In this case, I think that simply copying/pasting the post on DN would qualify as a Blaze because there's no way that would last long and the poster would be Alliz-banned so fast it would make you wonder why it takes them so long to remove all the spam on their blog. :lol=:
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Freakzilla » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:12 am

We should start a pool on how long it stays up.
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Nekhrun » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:58 pm

Did you post it? I'm looking now and don't see it.
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Freakzilla » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:55 pm

No, I was waiting for the rest of the damning quotes about the length and content.
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby D Pope » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:05 pm

It'll take a few days, lawn work, laundry, bathroom sink...All the domestic chores I enjoy less than I should.
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Freakzilla » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:07 pm

No hurry. :)=
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby SandChigger » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:37 pm

5 January 2004 Bryon Merritt interviews Brian Herbert wrote: Even though she (Beverly Herbert ) died in 1984, I am certain that she guided me to meet Kevin J. Anderson in 1997, and that she approved of us as a writing team enough to show us where to find missing notes that were needed to resume the Dune series.
Science Fiction Weekly Issue 350
http://www.syfy.com/sfw/issue350/interview.html

WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK IF BEVERLY HERBERT APPROVES FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE?! THEY WERE FRANK HERBERT'S FUCKING BOOKS!!! :angry-screaming:
"Chancho...sometimes when you are a man...you wear stretchy pants...in your room...alone."

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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Nekhrun » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:50 pm

SandChigger wrote:
5 January 2004 Bryon Merritt interviews Brian Herbert wrote: Even though she (Beverly Herbert ) died in 1984, I am certain that she guided me to meet Kevin J. Anderson in 1997, and that she approved of us as a writing team enough to show us where to find missing notes that were needed to resume the Dune series.
Science Fiction Weekly Issue 350
http://www.syfy.com/sfw/issue350/interview.html

WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK IF BEVERLY HERBERT APPROVES FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE?! THEY WERE FRANK HERBERT'S FUCKING BOOKS!!! :angry-screaming:

Not only that, isn't Byron an atheist? So what the fuck is this guided by her hand bullshit? He'll even sell out his beliefs if he thinks it will fit the HLP narrative.
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby merkin muffley » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:27 pm

5 January 2004 Bryon Merritt interviews Brian Herbert wrote: I am certain that she guided me to meet Kevin J. Anderson in 1997


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I sure hope there are better things to do after we die than lead Brian Herbert to Kevin J. Anderson. I mean, give me a fuggin break...
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Freakzilla » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:34 am

Does being an athiest mean non-belief in all things supernatural? I thought it meant you didn't believe in God. :?
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby merkin muffley » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:54 am

Freakzilla wrote:Does being an athiest mean non-belief in all things supernatural? I thought it meant you didn't believe in God. :?


To me, it's pretty weird to claim to be an atheist, but say you believe in guardian angels and ghosts. I'm sure there are belief systems that claim to be atheist, but also accept paranormal things: newfacedancers, for example. Maybe Byron is a newfacedancer.
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Freakzilla » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:38 am

I claim to be on the fence between atheism and agnosticism.

I don't believe in the god of the "People of The Book" and I don't think there is a God.

What I do know is that I don't know everything and I'm not so arrogant as to say I know there is no God.

I don't rule out the possibility that there are things we don't understand.
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby merkin muffley » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:59 pm

I'm agnostic, and what you're saying makes sense to me. I guess when I think of a person who declares themselves to be Atheist I think of Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens, and definitely don't think of a person who talks freely about channeling their relatives. But it's all good.
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby SandChigger » Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:46 am

I shat figuratively on Brian Herbert's fuzzy head as I passed over Port Elizabeth and Seattle at around 3:30 AM their local time. We passed too far south of Denver to do the same again later on KJA's. :twisted:
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby lotek » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:19 pm

trust the winds of dune to have their revenge on how their name was ridiculed by keith...

you need to have some faith!
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby D Pope » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:19 pm

Browsing for the next post, I found this.

January Magazine // 2000, The Sons of Dune,by Linda Richards wrote:
Two weeks after that a safety deposit box appeared that had been missing for 11 years and it just seemed very kharmic. But I think it was my mother involved because she was in touch with other realms. In fact, she would tell dad when it was safe to travel and when it wasn't and various other things. She could find things that were lost: she was definitely in touch. And I think my mother was telling me that it was OK. That this was the right team to do the project. I really believe that.
http://januarymagazine.com/profiles/duneprofile.html


Can't understand how I missed it.
Second time so far Brian has touched on a subject so dear to our Chigger.
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Freakzilla » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:45 am

The dissapearing safe deposit box? :P
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby SandChigger » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:04 am

Crazy Southern women? :P
"Chancho...sometimes when you are a man...you wear stretchy pants...in your room...alone."

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Re: The Safe Deposit Box, Why would they lie?

Postby Freakzilla » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:32 pm

SandChigger wrote:Crazy Southern women? :P


"Crazy" is redundant there.
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