The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

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The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby SandRider » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:33 pm

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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby Omphalos » Sun May 02, 2010 10:44 pm

I've been thinking lately that the "notes" that they keep referring to are the handwritten notes in the proofs and galleys of the six books at CSU Fullerton. There are a ton of them there. One of these days I going to get them all.
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The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby D Pope » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:47 pm

1999: Afterword from Dune: House Atreides Brian Herbert wrote:the safety deposit boxes were opened. Inside were papers and old-style floppy computer disks that included comprehensive notes for an unpublished "Dune 7"--the long-awaited sequel to Chapterhouse: Dune! Now Kevin and I knew for certain where Frank Herbert had been headed, and we could weave the events of our prequels into a future grand finale for the series.


July 1999 by Crescent Blues,KJA: Pumped on Dune wrote:Kevin J. Anderson: We had to create a lot, but there were a couple things that helped. We found Frank Herbert's full and complete outline for "Dune 7," the last Dune book that he was going to do, which is set far in the future from the original ones.
But there are also thousands of pages of his own character notes, background notes, his cogitations on the Bene Gesserit and how they formed, some back-history on the Butlerian Jihad…
After we had already agreed to do it, we plotted some things. We decided to do the prequel instead of the sequel at the moment -- we will eventually do the last one. And after we had already plotted the prequel, that's when Brian, by digging through all the stuff we had on Dune, came upon the key to the safe deposit where he found the [Dune 7] outline.
Then Brian was trying to turn his garage into an office. Inside there, in a back corner, he found a Xerox (tm) box with thousands of pages of Frank Herbert's handwritten notes. It had all been put away at his father's death. Nothing was happening to them. It was like discovering this lost treasure or going into the C.I.A. warehouse and finding the Ark of the Covenant somewhere.
http://www.crescentblues.com/2_5issue/anderson.shtml


Nov. 10, 1999 KJA, BH, Transcript from Time Chat Event wrote:Inside those boxes were the notes for an unpublished Dune novel, which Dad was just beginning to work on at the time of his death. We also located more than 1,300 pages of Frank Herbert's Dune notes in a storage loft of my home. We had plenty of material to work with.
Kevin and I have been able to use the clues that Dad left over for such characters as Duncan Idaho, and we also have Frank Herbert's notes for the original series, so we are able to fill in details about characters' early years. It is very important to make the early events that we are describing consistent with the characters' later lives, as written by Frank Herbert.
KJA;We also have many of Frank Herbert's notes, including the complete outline of Dune 7, the sequel of Chapterhouse Dune, and we also are considering the story of the Butlerian jihad.
http://www.time.com/time/community/tran ... 9dune.html



January Magazine // 2000 The Sons of Dune by Linda Richards wrote:BH;I started looking through my attic. I hadn't intended to write a Dune book, but I had some of dad's manuscripts. So I started looking through them and not only were there manuscripts, but there was 1300 pages of working notes up in my attic. So my mother not only directed us to the safety deposit box, but to the notes.
http://januarymagazine.com/profiles/duneprofile.html


2001 infinity plus KJA Interview by Nick Gevers wrote:Brian and I have uncovered over 3000 pages of Frank Herbert's working notes as well as the complete outline for the climactic Dune novel he intended to write.
http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/nonfiction/intkja.htm


pre Butlerian Jihad, Wormhole Books: Interview, BH, KJA wrote:KJA;an old safe deposit box key that had belonged to Frank. Inside the box was, among other things, the full and complete outline for Dune 7, the climactic novel Frank had intended to write. Later, while clearing out his garage to convert part of it into a writing office, Brian also found a large box of Dune notes Frank had stored there years before. Suddenly, we were faced with an overwhelming amount of material, clues, details, storylines, quotes-all of which we have incorporated into our books.
http://www.wormholebook.com/interviews/brian_kevin.htm


2001 Frank Herbert Lives by Byron Merritt wrote:The boxes were laid onto a table and Brian watched as the lids yawned open, as if waking from a deep slumber. From the first box, the attorney handed Brian volumes of recipes his father had cooked up (the "I write" man was also an excellent chef). In the second box were a few very old five-and-a-quarter-inch floppy disks with stacks of papers underneath.

What Brian saw was beyond imagination and hope. He'd uncovered an item that'll be shared with millions of people. On the cover of the first page, scribbled in Frank Herbert's unmistakable hand, were two words: 'Dune 7.'

(Penny calls her boy,"We've found notes for a seventh Dune book. They were discovered in a safety deposit box in Seattle after all these years."
After confirming that she wasn't 'joshin me,' we (Penney & Byron) talked about what this meant to us and to literature. But mostly we talked about what it meant to us, to our family.)
http://www.sffworld.com/authors/m/merri ... ives1.html


June 11, 2002 Landsraad Website Interview wrote:KJA;With all of Frank Herbert’s notes, we have a basic framework of major events, which is like having a flashlight in a big, dark room.
From Frank Herbert’s voluminous notes, we had a broad-strokes outline of the epochal events that establish the DUNE universe, but none of the details.
The Butlerian Jihad has always been the tale that most fascinates DUNE fans, and we finally lay out the answers. It was a process of learning and discovery for us as much as it will be for the reader.
We have the outline for the Grand Finale and how it wraps up all the storylines, so we are laying the basis for much of it in our prequels.


Fed2K,2003 Byron Merritt interview by Dwight Steven Pavlovic wrote: This new series has opened up Brian and Kevin's imaginations. In the first three prequels (The House series), they were constrained by what happens immediately after their stories ended -- that being the original Dune material by Frank Herbert. So they had to tread veeeery carefully. But with this new series, they've gone back nearly 10,000 years to a time that my grandfather only hinted about. They've got a lot of leeway to play around with (in fiction writing terms).


2003: Merritt Interview, KJA wrote:Frank Herbert left so much material for us to draw on, it's like having a giant pantry in the kitchen and a shelf full of cookbooks. We aren't going to run out of things to cook!

In The Butlerian Jihad, The Machine Crusade, and The Battle of Corrin, we're set 10,000 years earlier in "history." The planets, cultures, people, and technology are completely different. Brian and I had to create that world from scratch (using Frank Herbert's notes and details).
We have Frank Herbert's outline for Dune 7, which ties together all of the threads he laid down in his original Dune chronicles - and Brian and I needed to do our House trilogy and the Butlerian Jihad trilogy to set up many of the necessary details for the story.


Oct 2003 Writers Write, KJA interview by Claire E. White wrote:So Brian went to a bank in the Seattle area and they opened up the boxes that had been there unknown and untouched for all these years, and there were some old disks, some recipes, some letters and things …and the full and complete outline for Dune 7.

At the time, Brian wasn't so much writing at home; he was a full-time insurance agent. And he was doing a few other projects. But when he realized that we were going to be tackling these big projects that he needed to have a big writer's office himself, like I did. At home, he has a three-car garage. And like most of us with a three car garage, he parks cars in two of the spaces, and piles junk in the third space. So they cleaned out all the junk from the third garage , all the bikes and boxes and old things, to make room for his writing studio and there, up in the back corner, by the rafters that had been stashed for fourteen years or so, was a big xeroxed box of papers on which Frank Herbert had written "Dune Notes". There were like 3,000 pages of Dune notes. There were character sketches, a lot of the epigraphs that go at the top of the chapters, files and files of those.

Once you read our books, you will say, "Oh, that's what it's all about." Frank Herbert did seem to have it all mapped out. And what's amazing to me is that - and remember, that I've re-read these six books over and over - but now we have to be like these religious devotees, looking over every little niche here and there. He did this all without computers -- he did it all in his head. It's just all notes on note cards and things. I defy anybody to find any major mistakes in the original six books which took him approximately twenty years to create.
It's amazingly complicated. There are one or two little glitches,(in Dune) that if you are a fanatic like we are then you could maybe spot them, although if we have spotted the glitches it's our job, as Kevin and Brian, to find some explanation that makes sense.
http://www.writerswrite.com/journal/oct03/anderson.htm


Nov. 2003 Sand In My Shoes,An Interview with BH and KJA by Sandy Auden wrote:"We found some of Dad's notes in a safe deposit box that had been locked for eleven years and we've been using them for Dune 7,"



January 2004 Bryon Merritt interviews Brian Herbert wrote:...about Dune 7, Frank Herbert's outline of the story is one of the most closely guarded secrets in science fiction, for obvious reasons.
http://www.syfy.com/sfw/issue350/interview.html
http://www.frankherbert.net/interviews.html



Feb29,2004 Inoculator9, dune2k KJA interview wrote:In his papers, Frank had left the complete outline for “Dune 7” -- so it’s just not accurate for some of the surly fans to claim that we’re concocting books that Frank Herbert never intended to write.
We had plotted out the general storyline and knew where we wanted to go -- and then, within days after I had gone back home -- Brian received a call from the estate lawyer about newly discovered safe-deposit boxes. Inside, were the working notes and full outline for DUNE 7, so suddenly we had the roadmap for where we had to end up.
And now we saw that Frank Herbert’s plans for the Butlerian Jihad, and the stories leading up to DUNE 7 all tied wonderfully together.
http://forum.dune2k.com/index.php?topic=13650.0


2004: Russian FanSite Interview (BH/KJA) wrote:" Frank Herbert’s outline was so vast,"
...but if we publish the notes and outline, then people will know the whole story! We want readers to get all the details from the published novels.
After we already had our general outline written and the proposal sent to publishers, then we found the outlines and notes.
http://www.thedune.ru


June 2004 The Roads of Arrakis, Byron Merritt wrote: And, of course, HUNTERS OF DUNE and SANDWORMS OF DUNE will finish off the outline of ‘Dune 7' that was left behind by my grandfather just prior to his death
http://arrakis.ru/merritt_eng.shtml


2004 amazon, Before Dune , After Frank Herbert wrote:Then Brian was cleaning out his garage to make an office space and he found all these boxes that had "Dune Notes" on the side.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/fe ... 28-5924624



December 2004 Russian Dune Fansite Byron Interview by Dicramack & Agamemnon wrote: No one can be sure what my grandfather's history of the machine wars was supposed to be. Or can they? Oh, that's right! Brian and Kevin have his notes! Okay, sarcasm's over. But seriously, Brian and Kevin have the notes and know what Frank had in mind. I think the issue some "Dune fans" are having is that Brian and Kevin don't have the same prose as Frank. But how could they?
I've seen the papers, and Brian and Kevin have taken A LOT of these items that Frank left behind and put them into their prequels. The basic history is straight out of my grandfather's notes, too.
http://www.thedune.ru


Ian Ascher, Int, KJA Before book#90 wrote:They opened up the safe deposit box and found inside the full and complete outline for "Dune 7," the final installment in the epic saga.
Later, when Brian was cleaning out his garage, in the back he found a Xerox box filled with over three thousand pages of Frank Herbert's other notes, background material, and character sketches. We felt very gratified now that we had a roadmap, and it also seemed that Frank Herbert was giving a nod to us to do the projects.
Then we will write the two volume grand climax as was outlined in Frank Herbert's detailed notes for "Dune 7." It's such a huge story we had to break it up into two volumes.
http://web.archive.org/web/200707032136 ... erson.html



2006: Hunters of Dune Audiobook Interview (BH/KJA) wrote:BH: Yeah, it's just a three-page, er, maybe two-and-a-half page outline, but it's er ... it's... it's concise, we've, um ... we've ... we've added a lot, a lot to it, I mean, it was, it was more of a ... an inspiration for us in kind of a general concept, than a detailed scene-by-scene outline, so Kevin and I have, have fleshed out the characters and the scenes and, ... um, and I think, er, oh a few weeks later, I started rummaging around in my storage and I ... and I found additional general er, Dune ... Dune notes of my father's that have really helped us too. So, it was kind of amazing to have these things appear right after Kevin and I met.

SB: So, you all had started making plans and then, essentially you found, a roadmap?
[KJA and BH talk over each other, then ...]
BH: Well, I wouldn't say we found a roadmap, I'd say we found ... clues.
SB: Okay.
BH: It's been more clues than ... than precise roadmaps.

SB: I was curious, because you had written about this in The Road to Dune, about having found this. I was always curious how detailed an outline it was, and how much room it gave you for improvisation, shall we say?
[KJA takes a breath, but BH answers ahead of him]
BH: No, it wasn't that detailed, it was more general.
SB: Got it.
KJA: But it answered the questions that we needed to have answered, I mean, there's ... there's some big mysteries that's [sic] left at the end of Chapterhouse: Dune and Frank Herbert could say more in a sentence than some people can say in chapters, so we were able to find ... what we had to do in order to write the rest of the story, and in fact it's ... it was such a huge story that was kind of sketched out in this outline, that it took us, er, either one 1500-page book to tell it, or two much smaller, 700-page books. So that's why Hunters of Dune is the first half of the grand climax.
SB: Right.

Thanks HBJ, you're the best!

9Aug2006 New Dune Books Resume Story,John Joseph Adams wrote:Anderson said that Frank Herbert's notes included a description of the story and a great deal of character background information. "But having a roadmap of the U.S. and actually driving across the country are two different things," he said. "Brian and I had a lot to work with and a lot to expand, now that we had Frank's original six novels and our six prequels to wrap up."


August 14th, 2007 Sci-Fi Week Chat with BH & KJA wrote: we found the outline and disks for "Dune 7" -- that story's been told many times. We did a lot of work with our prequels to both set up many of the details for the grand climax, and also to generate a lot of new interest in the Dune series. Now, with HUNTERS and SANDWORMS, we're bringing the story to its chronological end, as Frank Herbert envisioned it in his outline.
http://www.xfire.com/cms/xf_scifi_week_dune_transcript/


Apr8,2009 by SebastianPiccione,Project Fanboy wrote: After his death, Brian found some items he had left in a safe deposit box, including computer disks containing his last outline, for Dune 7. Among other boxes in storage, we found thousands of pages of notes, unpublished chapters, character backgrounds, epigraphs. So when we started work on the books, we had a great deal of material to work with
http://www.projectfanboy.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3006


Aug 17 2009 BH on Flipping the Myth of Jihad by Clayton Neuman wrote:and in them were the notes to Dune 7 -- it was a 30-page outline. So I went up in my attic and found another 1,000 pages of working notes.
http://www.filmcritic.com/features/2009 ... -interview


Nov2009 Jérôme Vincent, Interview de KJA VO wrote:When we found Frank Herbert’s notes detailing other parts of the history of the Dune series, we realized there were many other stories to be told. http://www.actusf.com/spip/article-8561.html
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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby D Pope » Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:33 pm

There's a lot of crap here, hard to say what's going on.
There's the notes location, the garage, the attic, storage, the rafters over the garage, storage loft.
Brian started out with 1300 pages of notes, stuck to it for a year, then quit talking about it. KJA doesn't do a bad job of staying on 3000 pages but doesn't really tie himself to finding them all in the xerox(tm) box.
The outline ranges from two and a half pages to thirty, clues to complete & detailed.

The best bit up there is HBJs transcript of the 2006 Hunters of Dune Audiobook Interview. Even from the text alone, I feel like he (Brian) decided to be clever and flex some authority in some twisted passive agressive way, even SB tries to get him back on track.
Thanks again for doing that Hunchback!

edit; added 'Brian' to clarify just who was being clever.
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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby D Pope » Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:29 pm

I know i'm not going to do this well so if someone gets the idea, please help me make the point. Here goes.

We all know that if there ever was an outline, it took a back seat to KJH plans. We also know the importance of maintaining the illusion that they're working as FH intended.
Why does the KJH insist on directly tying the last book to the first in such a juvinile manner? How can you not see the folly in such a blatent, obvious depature from the story? I'm not saying there was no continuity in Dune, but does anyone think Frank had Dune 7 in mind while writing Dune? God Emperor? Heretics? Yeah, I think he might've had 7 in mind by HoD, maybe.
I feel like i've gotten off topic, so after a smoke, i've come up with a different take. The point for Sandworms and Hunters was to finish the jihad books. It fits Dune like a poorly made kit car. There's no way, after all their exclaiming how hard they try, to believe that we're looking at a classic. "I couldn't afford a Bently, so I got this 3/4 scale fiberglass body to set on my old Bug frame. It sure is shiny! So now, I finally drive a Bentley." I know I sound like i'm crying about KJH stupidity, but i'm just not able to describe the feeling of a deeper level of dumb, if you will.

KJA,In his papers, Frank had left the complete outline for “Dune 7” -- so it’s just not accurate for some of the surly fans to claim that we’re concocting books that Frank Herbert never intended to write.
BH: Yeah, it's just a three-page, er, maybe two-and-a-half page outline, It's been more clues than ... than precise roadmaps.
KJA, Frank Herbert could say more in a sentence than some people can say in chapters, so it took us, er, either one 1500-page book to tell it, or two much smaller, 700-page books.
BH,Now Kevin and I knew for certain where Frank Herbert had been headed, and we could weave the events of our prequels into a future grand finale for the series.
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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby Hunchback Jack » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:09 pm

D Pope wrote:The best bit up there is HBJs transcript of the 2006 Hunters of Dune Audiobook Interview. Even from the text alone, I feel like he decided to be clever and flex some authority in some twisted passive agressive way, even SB tries to get him back on track.
Thanks again for doing that Hunchback!


You're more than welcome. That interview deserved to be transcribed and posted; some pretty damning stuff in there.

Great job digging up and comparing this stuff, by the way. Nice work.

Edited to add: I agree with the point you're trying to make, I think. If there ever was an outline, KJA used it solely as a way to give the prequels/sequels "FH-based" legitimacy. Oh, I'm willing to concede that he put parts of any existing outline in the two Dune 7 books, but you're absolutely on the money when you say he was more interested in tying his own elements from the Jihad books into Dune 7 than he was in fulfilling FH's vision or intentions.

The official line: Dune 7 is based on Frank's outline, and was completed as he would have intended if he were still alive. The prequel trilogies were written to rekindle interest in Dune, and to fill in the necessary backstory to prepare readers for Dune 7.

The reality: The House trilogy was probably the original project planned, outline or no outline, and was mainly KJA/BH's creation, with elements lifted from FH's Dune notes and drafts. The Jihad trilogy was KJA/BH's creation, based solely on their own ideas (and minor elements lifted from the DE). Dune 7 was, at best, elements from a brief outline by FH, smothered by KJAs own ideas of "what happened next", and serving as a vehicle for reintroducing KJA's Jihad ideas because a) how cool is that?, and b) to give the Jihad elements legitimacy by making them a crucial part of the official conclusion to the original series.

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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby Freakzilla » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:52 am

Hunchback Jack wrote:The reality: The House trilogy was probably the original project planned, outline or no outline, and was mainly KJA/BH's creation, with elements lifted from FH's Dune notes and drafts.


Didn't they say they found the notes/outline AFTER "writing" HA?
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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby Hunchback Jack » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:04 pm

They say they found the Dune 7 outline after "plotting" the first prequel trilogy. I don't think they ever say exactly when the notes were found. But If you're saying you think HA was written without the benefit of any FH material, then I won't argue :).

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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby D Pope » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:09 am

Hunchback Jack wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Didn't they say they found the notes/outline AFTER "writing" HA?

They say they found the Dune 7 outline after "plotting" the first prequel trilogy. I don't think they ever say exactly when the notes were found. But If you're saying you think HA was written without the benefit of any FH material, then I won't argue .

Freak, you're dead on. They make a point of saying that after they completed their outline/proposal they found the outline, then the notes. In their mind this confirms Frank & Bevs 'blessing' their efforts. Hows that for sick? This last quote answers best.
Jack, you're right also, but I feel pretty safe in thinking they want us to believe they found Franks stuff around May/June 1997. As far as their stuff being written without the benefit of any FH material, I suspect we all have similar views on that.
Feb29,2004 Inoculator9, dune2k KJA interview wrote:We had plotted out the general storyline and knew where we wanted to go -- and then, within days after I had gone back home -- Brian received a call from the estate lawyer about newly discovered safe-deposit boxes. Inside, were the working notes and full outline for DUNE 7, so suddenly we had the roadmap for where we had to end up.

January Magazine 2000 The Sons of Dune, by Linda Richards wrote:(BH) For four months from January of 1997 to May of 1997 we started trying to figure out where Frank Herbert was intending to go with the unpublished Dune book and he'd died before he could get much into it. We had a lot of theories...
By May of 1997, I'd met Kevin and Rebecca [Kevin's wife, the writer Rebecca Moesta] and we had an incredible proposal. Two weeks after that a safety deposit box appeared that had been missing for 11 years and it just seemed very kharmic.

pre Butlerian Jihad, Wormhole Books: Interview, BH, KJA wrote:After we had decided what to do, we met together in Brian's Seattle home, brainstormed the whole "Prelude to Dune" trilogy -- and THEN the Herbert estate lawyer called to say he had discovered an old safe deposit box key that had belonged to Frank.

pre Butlerian Jihad, Wormhole Books: Interview, BH, KJA wrote:We had already started work on HOUSE ATREIDES, trying to decide what to do because we didn’t know of any Frank Herbert notes.

And here's the biggie;
200?: Russian FanSite Interview (w/KJA) wrote:After we already had our general outline written and the proposal sent to publishers, then we found the outlines and notes. (This necessitated some changes, of course.) We were completely shocked, but it felt as if Frank Herbert was watching over us.

Somewhere, Brian brags about how their first proposal for Dune books was, at 140 pages, the largest either of them had ever seen and also admits to sending it off before finding the treasure. Sorry i've overlooked it.
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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby D Pope » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:53 am

I have just realized that there's one constant in all the interviews and it is sickening.
Russian FanSite Interview (w/KJA) wrote:After we already had our general outline written and the proposal sent to publishers, then we found the outlines and notes. (This necessitated some changes, of course.) We were completely shocked, but it felt as if Frank Herbert was watching over us.

Pushing the idea that Frank and/or Beverly 'blessed' them with the outline and notes only after they had submitted a worthy idea is beyond describing. Yuck! Really! The only thing that never varies is supernatural approval? This gives a whole new level of disgusting to whatever intellectual issues I had before. It's times like this I appreciate the phrase 'ignorence is bliss,' i'm never going to be the same. This really is WRONG on an institutional level. Can't a guy end up in a soft room for issues like this?

Maybe you guys noticed it before, I just learned this and I think it's huge!
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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby D Pope » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:17 am

2001 Frank Herbert Lives by Byron Merritt wrote:What Brian saw was beyond imagination and hope. He'd uncovered an item that'll be shared with millions of people. On the cover of the first page, scribbled in Frank Herbert's unmistakable hand, were two words: 'Dune 7.'

Shared with millions, huh.
January 2004 Bryon Merritt interviews Brian Herbert wrote:...about Dune 7, Frank Herbert's outline of the story is one of the most closely guarded secrets in science fiction, for obvious reasons.

Perhaps he meant exploited for millions.
2001 Frank Herbert Lives by Byron Merritt wrote:(Penny calls her boy,"We've found notes for a seventh Dune book. They were discovered in a safety deposit box in Seattle after all these years." After confirming that she wasn't 'joshin me,' we (Penney & Byron) talked about what this meant to us and to literature. But mostly we talked about what it meant to us, to our family.)

Cha Ching! $$$$
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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby D Pope » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:27 am

2006: Hunters of Dune Audiobook Interview BH wrote:it's just a three-page, er, maybe two-and-a-half page outline

Aug 17 2009 BH on Flipping the Myth of Jihad by Clayton Neuman wrote:-- it was a 30-page outline.

2004: Russian FanSite Interview (BH/KJA) wrote:" Frank Herbert’s outline was so vast,"
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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby D Pope » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:45 am

Ian Ascher, Int, KJA Before book#90 Kevin clearly wrote:They opened up the safe deposit box and found inside the full and complete outline for "Dune 7,"

2006: Hunters of Dune Audiobook Interview, BH wrote: it was, it was more of a ... an inspiration for us in kind of a general concept, than a detailed scene-by-scene outline,

Ian Ascher, Int, KJA wrote:We felt very gratified now that we had a roadmap,

2006: Hunters of Dune Audiobook Interview wrote:BH: Well, I wouldn't say we found a roadmap, I'd say we found ... clues. It's been more clues than ... than precise roadmaps.

Ian Ascher, Int, KJA wrote:Then we will write the two volume grand climax as was outlined in Frank Herbert's detailed notes for "Dune 7."

2006: Hunters of Dune Audiobook Interview BH wrote:BH: No, it wasn't that detailed, it was more general.
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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby D Pope » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:58 am

2001 Frank Herbert Lives by Byron Merritt wrote:From the first box, the attorney handed Brian volumes of recipes his father had cooked up (the "I write" man was also an excellent chef).


2003: Merritt Interview, KJA wrote:Frank Herbert left so much material for us to draw on, it's like having a giant pantry in the kitchen and a shelf full of cookbooks. We aren't going to run out of things to cook!
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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby D Pope » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:14 am

Feb29,2004 Inoculator9, dune2k KJA wrote:In his papers, Frank had left the complete outline for “Dune 7” -- so it’s just not accurate for some of the surly fans to claim that we’re concocting books that Frank Herbert never intended to write.


2006: Hunters of Dune Audiobook Interview BH wrote:BH: Yeah, it's just a three-page, er, maybe two-and-a-half page outline, but it's er ... it's... it's concise, we've, um ... we've ... we've added a lot, a lot to it, I mean, it was, it was more of a ... an inspiration for us in kind of a general concept, than a detailed scene-by-scene outline, so Kevin and I have, have fleshed out the characters and the scenes
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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby Freakzilla » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:21 am

D Pope wrote:
Feb29,2004 Inoculator9, dune2k KJA wrote:In his papers, Frank had left the complete outline for “Dune 7” -- so it’s just not accurate for some of the surly fans to claim that we’re concocting books that Frank Herbert never intended to write.


2006: Hunters of Dune Audiobook Interview BH wrote:BH: Yeah, it's just a three-page, er, maybe two-and-a-half page outline, but it's er ... it's... it's concise, we've, um ... we've ... we've added a lot, a lot to it, I mean, it was, it was more of a ... an inspiration for us in kind of a general concept, than a detailed scene-by-scene outline, so Kevin and I have, have fleshed out the characters and the scenes


Concise and general in the same breath. :? :roll:
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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby D Pope » Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:54 am

D Pope wrote:I have just realized that there's one constant in all the interviews and it is sickening.
Russian FanSite Interview (w/KJA) wrote:After we already had our general outline written and the proposal sent to publishers, then we found the outlines and notes. (This necessitated some changes, of course.) We were completely shocked, but it felt as if Frank Herbert was watching over us.

Pushing the idea that Frank and/or Beverly 'blessed' them with the outline and notes only after they had submitted a worthy idea is beyond describing. Yuck! Really! The only thing that never varies is supernatural approval? This gives a whole new level of disgusting to whatever intellectual issues I had before. It's times like this I appreciate the phrase 'ignorence is bliss,' i'm never going to be the same. This really is WRONG on an institutional level. Can't a guy end up in a soft room for issues like this?

Maybe you guys noticed it before, I just learned this and I think it's huge!

Is this old news for you guys?
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Re: The Notes and the Outline, here's what I got.

Postby Freakzilla » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:44 am

Yeah, sorry. :)=
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
will fall upon you because of your innocent mistakes.

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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes" conspiracy theories by the hack

Postby lotek » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:20 am

"In the Dune online community there are people who, under normal circumstances, are of the most intelligent ilk who have great opinions and views about a great many things. But when it turns to the Dune prequels and now Dune 7, they turn themselves into total, utter morons. It's beyond fathom.

Disappointing news, but not surprising. Brian and I are aware of a small group of fans like that, particularly congregating on a few discussion boards. My friend, artist Bob Eggleton (who painted the cover for my novel THE MARTIAN WAR) calls them the "Talifan."

But, there are those who see conspiracies around every corner. As to whether Brian and I are making up the very existence of the Dune 7 outline -- our editors have read Frank's original outline, our publisher has read it, as did Frank's editor at Ace/Putnam back when he originally sold the book. To the left, I'm posting copies of the actual IBM diskettes containing the files, with the labels "Dune 7 Outline" and "Dune 7 Notes" in Frank Herbert's own handwriting. (Will this convince any of the conspiracy crazies? Probably not. They don't *want* to accept an explanation.)

Anybody who still doesn't believe the outline exists is likely also spending time tracking down Elvis sightings, running after crop circles or reports of alien abductions, or listening to mysterious transmissions through their tooth fillings. There is no conspiracy.

And finally, to anyone posting comments that Brian hated his father or was somehow trying to get revenge on him -- shame on you. That is offensive and goes beyond the pale even for the worst internet fans. If you want to know about the relationship between Brian and his father, read his Hugo-nominated biography, DREAMER OF DUNE. Brian spent years writing that book as a loving tribute to his father.

Before he died, Frank Herbert asked Brian to write more DUNE novels with him, particularly to flesh out the Butlerian Jihad story.

The problem is, they hate *everything.*

http://web.archive.org/web/200710121258 ... age21.html

Couldn't read Bribri's BS PR stuff right after that *moron* that doesn't know punctuation.
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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby ULFsurfer » Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:54 pm

First time I'm seeing those disks.. Has anyone checked the handwriting? Can't help but think the writings on each disk look different.. Maybe the right one looks more like Frank's.
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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby SandRider » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:16 am

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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby Serkanner » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:38 pm

Why did Frank use two disks? Even in those days a disk could easily handle lots of pages of plain text.
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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby ULFsurfer » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:49 pm

Now when I have stared at some hand writings in that old thread it does look like Brian's writing on at least the right one. Especially the "n" and the "e" in Dune. A professional autograph authenticator should have a look at it, although this one pic is quite limited.. Then again, KJA might have made an erroneous assumption when he stated that it was Frank's handwriting by simply not knowing that the labels could have been blank to begin with and Brian filled them in.

I wish Brian could state the same, that it is Frank's, and then be revealed as a liar when it's proven it is HIS handwriting.
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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby Nekhrun » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:48 pm

Serkanner wrote:Why did Frank use two disks? Even in those days a disk could easily handle lots of pages of plain text.

Doesn't look to me like he used one. :wink:
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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby Serkanner » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:16 pm

Nekhrun wrote:
Serkanner wrote:Why did Frank use two disks? Even in those days a disk could easily handle lots of pages of plain text.

Doesn't look to me like he used one. :wink:


:think:

...

:doh:
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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby Hunchback Jack » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:08 pm

Looking back through this post, I have to thank and congratulate D Pope once again on his thorough research. This is great stuff.

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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby SandRider » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:09 am

seconded .... this is one of the things I originally intended for this archive -
to have all the various material on a subject collected in one place for easy reference,
and available for immediate use in schoolin' pretards .... f'instance, like over in the
Amazon Basement, when the "argument" is made that the McDune was based on Frank's
Notes, so Shut Up, Haters ... now, thanks to the Pope, searching thru the Mess O'
Threads that is Jacurutu is not necessary ... just come here, copy-pasta your pretard
body-blow, and go about your business ....
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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby Freakzilla » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:35 am

So, it starts out as comprehensive notes then goes to full and complete outline, and then there was 1300 pages of working notes up in Bobo’s attic which becomes just a complete outline but the notes grow to 3000 pages. Three years go by and now it’s a basic framework of major events, broad brush strokes with no details. Another year goes by and it’s a full and complete outline again. Another year and it’s working notes and full outline. Then later that year (2004) the bombshell:

“After we already had our general outline written and the proposal sent to publishers, then we found the outlines and notes.”

IMO the argument becomes moot at that point and there's no point in tracing their lies any further.
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
will fall upon you because of your innocent mistakes.

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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby Freakzilla » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:52 am

I can totaly believe there IS an outline but The Hack and his puppet having already submitted their own outline were too lazy to trash that and start over with His outline, they just adjusted their story a little to fit it in.
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby lotek » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:57 pm

A real writer delivers on time !
In short, the Jihad is over. It ended just as SandRider predicted it would, not with a bang or even a whimper, by simple attrition.
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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby Freakzilla » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:15 pm

lotek wrote:A real writer delivers on time !


And often!
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby lotek » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:03 am

And in large quantities !
In short, the Jihad is over. It ended just as SandRider predicted it would, not with a bang or even a whimper, by simple attrition.
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Re: The Alleged "Dune 7 Notes"

Postby D Pope » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:01 pm

HBJ wrote:Looking back through this post, I have to thank and congratulate D Pope once again on his thorough research. This is great stuff.

HBJ
SandRider wrote:seconded .... this is one of the things I originally intended for this archive -
to have all the various material on a subject collected in one place for easy reference,
and available for immediate use in schoolin' pretards .... f'instance, like over in the
Amazon Basement, when the "argument" is made that the McDune was based on Frank's
Notes, so Shut Up, Haters ... now, thanks to the Pope, searching thru the Mess O'
Threads that is Jacurutu is not necessary ... just come here, copy-pasta your pretard
body-blow, and go about your business ....

Thanks guys! :oops=:

Such was my hope as well mate! I might try another project; gathering different subjects- everything Brian has said about collaboration, 14evins' thoughts on sandboxes, shit like that to assist our goal of 'easy, available reference for the pretard body blow!'
We're playing with some ways of organizing the interviews, over at OH Europe. It'll be a while before I can do much but look it over and share your thoughts. We might go with a chrono-divided set of 'announcements' that will not be open for comment, and thus, will stay put. If you want to comment, you can look up the interview in the slush-pile.
For me, there's some appeal in being able to say, "Third forum, second one down, paragraph eleven."

"just come here, copy-pasta your pretard
body-blow, and go about your business"
The title for a new forum?
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