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THE (ALMOST) UNDELETED • View topic - Financial Bail Out

Financial Bail Out

Any old topic will do, I suppose.

Financial Bail Out

Postby Omphalos » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:40 pm

So, what are you all thinking about this? Personally, Im waffling like I have never waffled before. I usually am a fence rider, and a big part of me is pretty disgusted by welfare for banks. It seems to me that the package that they were debating is nothing more than an incentive package though. And when Bernake, Paulson and non-political heads of business like Buffett stand up and say that we need this and it needs to be direct aid, another big part of me says OK. Do it.
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Postby Robspierre » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:35 pm

I tend to listen to Buffett more, he has been calling for a lot of changes that would of prevented some of this, but at the same time, the CEO's and boards need to pay for the taxpayer to bail them out and not get any bloody bonuses or incentives, typical wall street, reward fuck ups.

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Postby Rakis » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:56 pm

Too much politics in that right now to make sense...

Maybe they should wait after the election ?

Or simply give the money to the tax payers... 8)
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:10 am

I'm pretty on the fence with this one too, I disagree with it in some ways, but I guess it's the gov's duty to do what it can to protect the economy and if they really are sure it'll work then I guess it's what has to be done. If afterwards they don't create some laws to stop this same kind of thing errupting out of sheer stupidity again (sub-prime) - well then I'll be dissapointed.

Promising to do it and then waffling is sure wrecking havoc on the markets though...
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Postby Omphalos » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:12 am

Rakis wrote:Too much politics in that right now to make sense...

Maybe they should wait after the election ?


This is what I was saying all day yesterday. Those cowards are voting with the majority of phone calls they get. I also think its stupid to have all 450 reps up for re-election every two years. that makes shit like this happen.
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Postby Tleilax Master B » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:00 pm

Rakis wrote:Too much politics in that right now to make sense...

Maybe they should wait after the election ?

Or simply give the money to the tax payers... 8)


Good idea. Let's see, roughly about 200 million tax payers over the age of 18, and not in prison etc. Let's just look at the 85 billion to bail out AIG (this doesn't even take into account the 700 billion being proposed....). Let's say we pay each of the 200 million legal tax payers a fair cut of the 85 bil. That is roughly 425,000 thousand each. Uncle Sam has to get his green, so we go ahead and tax that money roughly 30%, so the gov'ment gets back about 25 billion in taxes. Each person gets a check for $297,500--it would be twice that for married couples, of course. What could the citizens do with that money? Many could pay off their mortages--housing crisis solved. Some would pay off all their college loans--more money for future generations to borrow, probably at a very reasonable rate. Some might just put it back in a savings account, which would create more money for small business or entrepeneurs to borrow. Some might pay off medical expenses for their family and older parents/grandparents--healthcare crisis solved. Others would invest in the market and the capital would likely produce growth. etc, etc etc. Some might just buy shit they want--that's called consumer spending, and once again puts the money back into the market.

Give us our fucking money back you pricks.... :evil:
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:08 pm

Or they could pay us Canadians back. :P I want my $2600 of my tax money back! (jk)

I can see where the bail out idea is coming from, it's kinda funny (in a sick way) in a so called capitalist country, but similar ideas have helped stabilize the economy in the past... it's just such a frighteningly big number, especially for a country 10 tril in debt, very scary if it doesn't work.
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Postby chanilover » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:17 pm

Tleilax Master B wrote:
Rakis wrote:Too much politics in that right now to make sense...

Maybe they should wait after the election ?

Or simply give the money to the tax payers... 8)


Good idea. Let's see, roughly about 200 million tax payers over the age of 18, and not in prison etc. Let's just look at the 85 billion to bail out AIG (this doesn't even take into account the 700 billion being proposed....). Let's say we pay each of the 200 million legal tax payers a fair cut of the 85 bil. That is roughly 425,000 thousand each. Uncle Sam has to get his green, so we go ahead and tax that money roughly 30%, so the gov'ment gets back about 25 billion in taxes. Each person gets a check for $297,500--it would be twice that for married couples, of course. What could the citizens do with that money? Many could pay off their mortages--housing crisis solved. Some would pay off all their college loans--more money for future generations to borrow, probably at a very reasonable rate. Some might just put it back in a savings account, which would create more money for small business or entrepeneurs to borrow. Some might pay off medical expenses for their family and older parents/grandparents--healthcare crisis solved. Others would invest in the market and the capital would likely produce growth. etc, etc etc. Some might just buy shit they want--that's called consumer spending, and once again puts the money back into the market.

Give us our fucking money back you pricks.... :evil:


When they talk about US taxpayers paying $700 billion dollars for these toxic debts, that's ultimately true, as the US government's revenue mostly comes from US taxpayers. But they can't give you US taxpayers the $700 billion dollars to spend, as they don't technically have the money.

What the Treasury is asking for is an increase in the borrowing limit by $700 billion, and the funding will come through issuing up to $700 billion of US Treasury securities. I'd imagine the Chinese central bank would buy up the lion's share of them. Despite all the mess, the US government is still rated AAA by Standard & Poor's.

The national debt of the US is already nearly $10 trillion, which is over 65% of GDP.
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Postby Crysknife » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:40 pm

Tleilax Master B wrote:
Rakis wrote:Too much politics in that right now to make sense...

Maybe they should wait after the election ?

Or simply give the money to the tax payers... 8)


Good idea. Let's see, roughly about 200 million tax payers over the age of 18, and not in prison etc. Let's just look at the 85 billion to bail out AIG (this doesn't even take into account the 700 billion being proposed....). Let's say we pay each of the 200 million legal tax payers a fair cut of the 85 bil. That is roughly 425,000 thousand each. Uncle Sam has to get his green, so we go ahead and tax that money roughly 30%, so the gov'ment gets back about 25 billion in taxes. Each person gets a check for $297,500--it would be twice that for married couples, of course. What could the citizens do with that money? Many could pay off their mortages--housing crisis solved. Some would pay off all their college loans--more money for future generations to borrow, probably at a very reasonable rate. Some might just put it back in a savings account, which would create more money for small business or entrepeneurs to borrow. Some might pay off medical expenses for their family and older parents/grandparents--healthcare crisis solved. Others would invest in the market and the capital would likely produce growth. etc, etc etc. Some might just buy shit they want--that's called consumer spending, and once again puts the money back into the market.

Give us our fucking money back you pricks.... :evil:


That would be only $425.00 dollars to each person.

I think the bailout idea sucks ass. I say just give banks that need it a low interest loan from the government. There has to be a way to get this money back with interest. No one gets a check for 700 billion for free. I assume that is what they are working on now. But I do think something has to be done. Credit is the problem and our economy will stagnate without any kind of action.
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Postby Omphalos » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:00 pm

Crysknife wrote:
Tleilax Master B wrote:
Rakis wrote:Too much politics in that right now to make sense...

Maybe they should wait after the election ?

Or simply give the money to the tax payers... 8)


Good idea. Let's see, roughly about 200 million tax payers over the age of 18, and not in prison etc. Let's just look at the 85 billion to bail out AIG (this doesn't even take into account the 700 billion being proposed....). Let's say we pay each of the 200 million legal tax payers a fair cut of the 85 bil. That is roughly 425,000 thousand each. Uncle Sam has to get his green, so we go ahead and tax that money roughly 30%, so the gov'ment gets back about 25 billion in taxes. Each person gets a check for $297,500--it would be twice that for married couples, of course. What could the citizens do with that money? Many could pay off their mortages--housing crisis solved. Some would pay off all their college loans--more money for future generations to borrow, probably at a very reasonable rate. Some might just put it back in a savings account, which would create more money for small business or entrepeneurs to borrow. Some might pay off medical expenses for their family and older parents/grandparents--healthcare crisis solved. Others would invest in the market and the capital would likely produce growth. etc, etc etc. Some might just buy shit they want--that's called consumer spending, and once again puts the money back into the market.

Give us our fucking money back you pricks.... :evil:


That would be only $425.00 dollars to each person.

I think the bailout idea sucks ass. I say just give banks that need it a low interest loan from the government. There has to be a way to get this money back with interest. No one gets a check for 700 billion for free. I assume that is what they are working on now. But I do think something has to be done. Credit is the problem and our economy will stagnate without any kind of action.


Low interest loans appear to be the way that Sweeden and Brazil fixed the same problem when it happened there.
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Postby Mandy » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:01 pm

If this is such a terrible crisis, why'd Congress take the week off for the Jewish New Year?
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Postby SandChigger » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:28 pm

Havah nagilah!
Havah nagilah!
Hafta...ge tauta
Town reeel queeck!
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Postby Omphalos » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:38 pm

Mandy wrote:If this is such a terrible crisis, why'd Congress take the week off for the Jewish New Year?


Because <GASP!> they put in TWO days of over ten HOURS each!
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Postby Rakis » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:57 pm

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Or they could pay us Canadians back. :P I want my $2600 of my tax money back! (jk)



I like that part better... :P
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Postby Omphalos » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:33 pm

Rakis wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Or they could pay us Canadians back. :P I want my $2600 of my tax money back! (jk)



I like that part better... :P


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Postby Rakis » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:59 pm

Omphalos wrote:
Rakis wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Or they could pay us Canadians back. :P I want my $2600 of my tax money back! (jk)



I like that part better... :P


Canadians only get discount coupons for washers, dryers and microwaves in boarder towns.


Yeah...That's why ATOE's idea is SO much better :P
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:21 pm

Rakis wrote:
Omphalos wrote:
Rakis wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Or they could pay us Canadians back. :P I want my $2600 of my tax money back! (jk)



I like that part better... :P


Canadians only get discount coupons for washers, dryers and microwaves in boarder towns.


Yeah...That's why ATOE's idea is SO much better :P


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Postby inhuien » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:58 am

Mandy wrote:If this is such a terrible crisis, why'd Congress take the week off for the Jewish New Year?

If they’re anything like their British counterparts they need to get “home “ once in a while to feed and service their catamite. We were better off in the trees I tell you, all the leafs you can eat and you get to crap on whoever trying to eat you :)
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Postby Tleilax Master B » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:23 am

Crysknife wrote:
Tleilax Master B wrote:
Rakis wrote:Too much politics in that right now to make sense...

Maybe they should wait after the election ?

Or simply give the money to the tax payers... 8)


Good idea. Let's see, roughly about 200 million tax payers over the age of 18, and not in prison etc. Let's just look at the 85 billion to bail out AIG (this doesn't even take into account the 700 billion being proposed....). Let's say we pay each of the 200 million legal tax payers a fair cut of the 85 bil. That is roughly 425,000 thousand each. Uncle Sam has to get his green, so we go ahead and tax that money roughly 30%, so the gov'ment gets back about 25 billion in taxes. Each person gets a check for $297,500--it would be twice that for married couples, of course. What could the citizens do with that money? Many could pay off their mortages--housing crisis solved. Some would pay off all their college loans--more money for future generations to borrow, probably at a very reasonable rate. Some might just put it back in a savings account, which would create more money for small business or entrepeneurs to borrow. Some might pay off medical expenses for their family and older parents/grandparents--healthcare crisis solved. Others would invest in the market and the capital would likely produce growth. etc, etc etc. Some might just buy shit they want--that's called consumer spending, and once again puts the money back into the market.

Give us our fucking money back you pricks.... :evil:


That would be only $425.00 dollars to each person.

I think the bailout idea sucks ass. I say just give banks that need it a low interest loan from the government. There has to be a way to get this money back with interest. No one gets a check for 700 billion for free. I assume that is what they are working on now. But I do think something has to be done. Credit is the problem and our economy will stagnate without any kind of action.


:oops: Hehe, guess that's why I am an archaeologist and not a mathematician :D

I like the loan idea, but how about we give them the equivalent of an A.R.M. instead so the bastards get gouged later in a couple of years when the adjustable rate kicks in :P
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Postby Freakzilla » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:58 am

Tleilax Master B wrote:I like the loan idea, but how about we give them the equivalent of an A.R.M. instead so the bastards get gouged later in a couple of years when the adjustable rate kicks in :P


Excellent idea!
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Postby chanilover » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:03 pm

So far the dithering fucktards in Congress, by not reaching an agreement on the $700 billion bailout, have caused a fall in stock markets which has wiped $825 billion dollars from the value of Americans' retirement funds.

You couldn't make it up.
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Postby Freakzilla » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:45 pm

I would rather they take time to do it right and not just screw things up worse.

I have a 401K but I have the majority of it (72%) invested in a short term fixed income fund, which is pretty safe. 18% is in Honeywell stock which has taken a 4.5% drop in the past five days. The other 20% is in a 2040 retirement fund.

Overall, I'm down 4.3%. :(

But I have no sympathy for people who lose money in the stock market. I see it as gambling plain and simple. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I don't think anyone should be "bailed out". If you loose, you pay up or get your legs broken.

Here's the solution:

Stop loaning people with bad credit money.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:06 pm

Freakzilla wrote:I would rather they take time to do it right and not just screw things up worse.


I agree totally, but I wish they'd keep some things secret from the media. That's the problem with market problems and the media - talking about market problems in the media causes even more market problems! If we could just get rid of that annoying free press :wink: then we could propaganda ourselves right out of a recession...

Here's the solution:

Stop loaning people with bad credit money.


No kidding, and if a financial institution decides to deliberately do stupid shit like what happened with the sub-prime mortgages they should get their knees kicked in. Retards.


I have some money in mutual funds for my retirement, but I luckily chose to invest in pretty rock solid companies - Canadian natural resources. If those crash I figure it's because we're all dead anyways. :)
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Postby Omphalos » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:15 pm

I saw some of this coming and switched a bunch of things around. Overall Im up .2%, but my rate of return sucks the big one.
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Postby Freakzilla » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:47 pm

Omphalos wrote:I saw some of this coming and switched a bunch of things around. Overall Im up .2%, but my rate of return sucks the big one.


I'd rather make less than take high risks. I've never seen the attraction in gambling. It's strange because I have an addictive personality.

I'm only putting 2% of my pay into it now, but I plan on increasing my contribution in the future, if I can ever afford it. They match 50% of my contibution after the first year and 100% five years after that, up to 8% of my income. So I think I'd be crazy to not shoot for contributing as much as they will match.

I also hope to win the lottery. :wink:
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Postby Omphalos » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:51 pm

401k's are great. My wife is not working right now, so we have stopped contributing to other investments. I think she is thinking of going back to work though. I am maxed on my contribution. With 25 years of work life left in me, I should be worth a shit load when I die.
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Postby Freakzilla » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:57 pm

:lol: That's very optomistic!
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Postby Omphalos » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:05 pm

Freakzilla wrote::lol: That's very optomistic!


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Postby A Thing of Eternity » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:17 pm

At my current rate of investment for retirement I should have about 13K by the time I'm 65...











Looks like I'm going to be one of those "working retired" people. :cry:
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Postby Freakzilla » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:30 pm

A Thing of Eternity wrote:At my current rate of investment for retirement I should have about 13K by the time I'm 65...


With that you could buy a broken down van to live in by the river.

Looks like I'm going to be one of those "working retired" people. :cry:


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Postby A Thing of Eternity » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:59 pm

Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:At my current rate of investment for retirement I should have about 13K by the time I'm 65...


With that you could buy a broken down van to live in by the river.

Looks like I'm going to be one of those "working retired" people. :cry:


I don't look at those numbers. You can't invest any more than you can afford.


I'm hoping to up my investments but I'm digging my way out of some (not huge, but substantial) debt I got into as a result of moving to a different province and making a couple dumb choices (paying for all the breaks rotors labour etc on my band's van).

You're right though, no point worrying about it if you can't afford to incest more.


I've been toying with the idea of sending all my savings over to India to sit in a bank account (an old co-worker of mine does this since he's planning on retiring back home in India). Even forgetting the exchange rate, which could go to hell if our ecomony keeps dropping and India's keeps improving, some of the banks there pay 18% interest just for a savings account. Fucking nuts. Plus I get to loan some money to an up and coming economy, good for me, good for them, everybody wins.
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Postby Freakzilla » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:32 pm

A Thing of Eternity wrote:You're right though, no point worrying about it if you can't afford to incest more.


Fruedian slip? :lol:
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Postby Freakzilla » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:33 pm

A Thing of Eternity wrote:(paying for all the breaks rotors labour etc on my band's van).


Breaks are easy to do, I do my own... because I can't afford it either.
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Postby The Phantom » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:41 pm

your senate just passed the bill...
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Postby Omphalos » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:03 pm

That is what they should have done in the first place. Have you all ever met with your Congressman? I have had the pleasure of meeting hundreds of them. I'd say a good 50, 60% of them are stupider than your average weatherman or sports caster. Plus, only 1/3 of the senate up for election in a month, so they will have less stupid "CYA" swings.
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Postby Robspierre » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:59 pm

Our current congressman is a piece of shit, he's running for senate and getting his ass handed to him by his democratic opponent.

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Postby Freakzilla » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:50 am

Omphalos wrote:That is what they should have done in the first place. Have you all ever met with your Congressman? I have had the pleasure of meeting hundreds of them. I'd say a good 50, 60% of them are stupider than your average weatherman or sports caster. Plus, only 1/3 of the senate up for election in a month, so they will have less stupid "CYA" swings.


Congressional races (most political races) are a popularity contest. Which is a shame.
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Postby Freakzilla » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:54 am

Baraka Bryan wrote:your senate just passed the bill...


It's actually a bit of a different bill, but similar.

Some things I've learned about it:

It's not a "bail-out", the money has to be paid back and will be backed by equity in the businees they are helping.

It would last no more than two years.

It would increase the FDIC limit to $250,000 (now I can consolidate my bank accounts!)

There's a couple of other points I'll try to remember...


I still say let 'em sink. I don't live off of credit and I don't think businesses should either.

They've been living high on the hog and the chickens are coming home to roost, y'all.

:P
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:57 am

Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:You're right though, no point worrying about it if you can't afford to incest more.


Fruedian slip? :lol:


The mother of all Freudian slips? :oops: That's frightening.


Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:(paying for all the breaks rotors labour etc on my band's van).


Breaks are easy to do, I do my own... because I can't afford it either.


I'm really only knowledgeable enough to do my own oil, but I've helped someone do my brakes before and it doesn't look too hard, it's just a super big deal if you fuck up! I'm not very confident with mechanical repairs, I'm always second guessing myself.

The problem was that it was half way through a tour, we'd just come over the mountains, the brakes were squealing and the van was pulling right when we braked. We didn't really have much down time before we'd have to go back across the mountains and that's the last place you'd want to be with bad brakes... since the rotors were rusted to hell too I think it all ended up costing something like a grand, which isn't so bad but it got the ball rolling for more debt.
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Postby Freakzilla » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:22 am

I see your point about being short on time in the mountains.

I'm the same way about second-guessing myself, but confidence only comes from experience. Give it a try sometime when you have the oportunity. I've found fixing things my self to be very reqarding, almost therapudic.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:32 am

Freakzilla wrote:I see your point about being short on time in the mountains.

I'm the same way about second-guessing myself, but confidence only comes from experience. Give it a try sometime when you have the oportunity. I've found fixing things my self to be very reqarding, almost therapudic.


If I would have been more confident I would have had plenty of time to do the repair, we had a day or two off I think. I should have thought to practice on my car when I first moved to Vancouver last year, but I was so stressed out and all ready in debt I just wanted it over with. I had to get (rusted again) all new rotor and calipers/cuffs(term?)and the mechanisms which push them down, plus my break lines were leaking fast. 900$ later.. further in debt.

I think you're right, I could probably afford some practice if I plan on driving for much longer. :shock:

I know what you mean about repairing things (building things works too) being therapeutic, I feel totally zen and important and happy every time I repair electronics or guitars, or when I build something within my skill and don’t fuck it up too bad. Must sate some kind of male urge to be useful or something.
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Postby Freakzilla » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:09 am

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I had to get (rusted again) all new rotor and calipers/cuffs(term?)and the mechanisms which push them down, plus my break lines were leaking fast. 900$ later.. further in debt.


I think cylinders are the term for the part you're looking for?

You're talking about a lot more than relining. I've rebuilt cylinders, that's not too hard. I've never replaced break lines, that sounds a little daunting.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:21 am

Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:I had to get (rusted again) all new rotor and calipers/cuffs(term?)and the mechanisms which push them down, plus my break lines were leaking fast. 900$ later.. further in debt.


I think cylinders are the term for the part you're looking for?

You're talking about a lot more than relining. I've rebuilt cylinders, that's not too hard. I've never replaced break lines, that sounds a little daunting.


I'm not sure what term I'm looking for, it's the equivalent of caliper (that's the part the brake pad attaches to and clamps down on the rotor right?) but for the drum/cylinder brakes. Maybe cylinder is the term...

Yeah, brake lines sounds like a bit much, I prefer to only mess with one section of my car at once.
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Postby Freakzilla » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:34 am

Yes, the cylinders push out on the inside of the drums.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:23 pm

Freakzilla wrote:Yes, the cylinders push out on the inside of the drums.


Good. Now next time I talk about this I won't sound so uneducated!
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Postby Ampoliros » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:06 pm

Thank you, I now have a new Sig.
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Postby micah » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:58 pm

basically the gov. wants to tax you, 'loan' the money to the banks so they can loan it back to you. Sounds ridiculous huh? thats because it IS! Let me say it again: they want to take your money, give it to the banks so they can loan it back to you!! you guys better call your local Rep. & let them know they better not pass it.
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Postby Omphalos » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:46 pm

micah wrote:basically the gov. wants to tax you, 'loan' the money to the banks so they can loan it back to you. Sounds ridiculous huh? thats because it IS! Let me say it again: they want to take your money, give it to the banks so they can loan it back to you!! you guys better call your local Rep. & let them know they better not pass it.


It sounds a bit to me like you are not quite sure what is going on here, or what the real risk is, how it will be funded, and that there are a large nubmer of ways this could resolve. Whatever the plan is, we will not be taxed first. This is permission for the Treasury to increase the debt limit by selling Treasury bonds. The taxing will come later, if we dont realize a profit on selling the securities that the Treasury will be buying with the funds later on. And honestly, the experts are all over the place on that issue. Do you konw something we don't?
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Postby Freakzilla » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:58 pm

Ampoliros wrote:Thank you, I now have a new Sig.


You need to give him credit in that quote.
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Postby Freakzilla » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:18 pm

Well, there's a couple of good things that's come out of this...

Illegal immigration has dropped and the amount of money they send to Mexico has too.

:D
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Postby Omphalos » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:33 pm

Freakzilla wrote:Well, there's a couple of good things that's come out of this...

Illegal immigration has dropped and the amount of money they send to Mexico has too.

:D


Remittances are a good thing. We want foreigners holding as much American cash in times of crisisas they can because they are more likely to refrain from hurting us, since they stand to lose value too.

Besides, lots of those dollars are spent when American products are sent abroad, so we send them out with little impact on our finanical system (actually, sending dollars out makes dollars here more scarce, and thus worth more), then earn a profit when they come back.
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Postby Freakzilla » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:52 pm

Omphalos wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Well, there's a couple of good things that's come out of this...

Illegal immigration has dropped and the amount of money they send to Mexico has too.

:D


Remittances are a good thing. We want foreigners holding as much American cash in times of crisisas they can because they are more likely to refrain from hurting us, since they stand to lose value too.

Besides, lots of those dollars are spent when American products are sent abroad, so we send them out with little impact on our finanical system (actually, sending dollars out makes dollars here more scarce, and thus worth more), then earn a profit when they come back.


I think we should find a more legitimate way to get dollars in the hands of foreigners.
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Postby SimonH » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:03 pm

Omphalos wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Well, there's a couple of good things that's come out of this...

Illegal immigration has dropped and the amount of money they send to Mexico has too.

:D


Remittances are a good thing. We want foreigners holding as much American cash in times of crisisas they can because they are more likely to refrain from hurting us, since they stand to lose value too.

Besides, lots of those dollars are spent when American products are sent abroad, so we send them out with little impact on our finanical system (actually, sending dollars out makes dollars here more scarce, and thus worth more), then earn a profit when they come back.


this is a great point.

maybe it is a bit cynical, but I think many of the political world problems would be lesser if the average person had a tangible financial interest in economic stability. If everyone in the world was like us westerners: working hard to pay for housing, a car or two, and most importantly - something fun every now and then. There is just so many people that don't have enough invested into our world to want it to stay this way.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:33 pm

Ampoliros wrote:Thank you, I now have a new Sig.


:oops:

Freakzilla wrote:
Ampoliros wrote:Thank you, I now have a new Sig.


You need to give him credit in that quote.


Or not... :oops:
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Postby Ampoliros » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:52 am

heh heh heh Its only my sig here on T(A)U.
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Postby Freakzilla » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:57 am

It's been passed by the House. :cry:
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Postby The Phantom » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:37 am

Freakzilla wrote:It's been passed by the House. :cry:



forseriously eh...
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Postby Omphalos » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:40 am

I think its a good thing. Can't wait for that asshole Bush to start saying that this is his legacy: That he "fixed" the financial crisis. :roll:
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Postby Ampoliros » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:01 pm

I think Bush would look good in Orange. Personally if I was the next president coming in I'd lock all his cabinet up in Guantanamo and let the next president decide what to do with them.
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Postby Rakis » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:11 pm

Ampoliros wrote:I think Bush would look good in Orange. Personally if I was the next president coming in I'd lock all his cabinet up in Guantanamo and let the next president decide what to do with them.


:twisted:

I would send the cabinet on a Tour of Duty : Live with some folks who have a hard time right now, then Irak, Afghanistan and coming back in New Orleans to help rebuild...
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Postby Phaedrus » Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:17 pm

The bailout bill passes...

And the stock market is still dropping like a rock.

That worked REALLY well. :roll:
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Postby Freakzilla » Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:53 pm

Phaedrus wrote:The bailout bill passes...

And the stock market is still dropping like a rock.

That worked REALLY well. :roll:


It was never supposed to be a silver bullet. It's amazing how little they've told the public about this bill.

It'll be years before our economy recovers.
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Postby Tleilax Master B » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:57 am

Phaedrus wrote:The bailout bill passes...

And the stock market is still dropping like a rock.

That worked REALLY well. :roll:


yeah, exactly. Now the economy is really in the shit hole :roll:

I got news for all you die-hard republicans out there; this just officially killed McCain's chance of winning.......
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:59 am

Tleilax Master B wrote:
Phaedrus wrote:The bailout bill passes...

And the stock market is still dropping like a rock.

That worked REALLY well. :roll:


yeah, exactly. Now the economy is really in the shit hole :roll:

I got news for all you die-hard republicans out there; this just officially killed McCain's chance of winning.......


I wouldn't bet on it. He's still the worst choice and therefore the more likely to be elected. :wink:

If Obama can somehow demonstrate that he'd run the country into the ground then he just might get elected. :lol:
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Postby Freakzilla » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:03 am

Where's Zaphod Breeblebrox when you need him?
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Postby Omphalos » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:04 am

Freakzilla wrote:Where's Zaphod Breeblebrox when you need him?


He's busy trying to steal the QE III.
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Postby Tleilax Master B » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:44 pm

Omphalos wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Where's Zaphod Breeblebrox when you need him?


He's busy trying to steal the QE III.


or drinking a pangalactic gargleblaster :D
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Postby Freakzilla » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:58 pm

Tleilax Master B wrote:
Omphalos wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Where's Zaphod Breeblebrox when you need him?


He's busy trying to steal the QE III.


or drinking a pangalactic gargleblaster :D


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Postby Omphalos » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:01 pm

I just read HHGTTG last week, and started Restaurant yesterday. I had forgotten how fun those books are. I have an omnibus edition that has all five books and a short story called "Young Zaphod Plays it Safe."

If the kids leave you alone, you can finish one of these things per day.
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Postby Freakzilla » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:25 pm

Omphalos wrote:I just read HHGTTG last week, and started Restaurant yesterday. I had forgotten how fun those books are. I have an omnibus edition that has all five books and a short story called "Young Zaphod Plays it Safe."

If the kids leave you alone, you can finish one of these things per day.


(I've read most of it at work this week, shhhhh!)

The name of that short story sounds very familiar and I'm certain I've read it but I can't remember what it was about.
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Postby Phaedrus » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:39 pm

Freakzilla wrote:
Phaedrus wrote:The bailout bill passes...

And the stock market is still dropping like a rock.

That worked REALLY well. :roll:


It was never supposed to be a silver bullet. It's amazing how little they've told the public about this bill.

It'll be years before our economy recovers.


Another 700 point drop today!

No not a silver bullet, but it was supposed to help. Stocks fall when stockholders don't have confidence in the value of what they own.

It's interesting that a bill that was supposed to reassure people has made them panic almost even more.

At the rate we're going, it'll be another week or so before the DOW hits zero.
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Postby chanilover » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:02 am

I'm not sure how much the US media covers events outside the US, so I don't know if you're aware of the problems in the rest of the world. The Dow is reacting to events outside the US. Iceland's banks are pretty much bust, andare holding on to around £1bn of investments made by UK local governments and charities. THe UK assets of one of Iceland's banks were frozen yesterday by the UK government using anti-terrorism laws, and the UK banks have been given a lifeline of £50bn from the Treasury in return for preference shares, another £200bn from the Bank of England and another £250bn in government guarantees at commercial rates, to try to encourage banks to lend to each other and free up loans to businesses and individuals. It looks like there is a huge worldwide recession on its way, and politicians are pretty much powerless to stop it.
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Postby Omphalos » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:14 am

Ive been following the Icelandic and the Benelux bank problems. And about how the savings & loan sector in Germany is doing very well, the swine. But I have not been hearing much about the foreign markets.

Can someone explain to me why its a good idea to buy these securities in this situation? It seems to me that the real problem with these securities is that their liquidity is based exclusively on interest income from real estate investments. I get that the Fed is trying to prop up the economy in general, but wouldnt it be better to give direct aid so that those invesements realize their potential income? Im not so sure that would directly lead to more confidence (which seems to be the root of the problem, since banks are not extending credit the way they used to), but wouldnt that free up some funds and give the bankers a moment to de-clinch?
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Postby micah » Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:13 pm

-Omph
-Maybe i don't know all the ins and outs, but from what my understanding of it is, it just doesn't wash. The 1st version of this bill wasn't originally online for the public to view, at least from what i could find on house.org. what sent the red flags up for me was that there was word that Paulson was to receive unprecedented oversight of the whole matter, & that he & whoever he appointed to his team weren't going to be able to prosecuted if however way they reacted was deemed unsuccesful or otherwise shadey. i remember alot of economist on cnn saying that on that basis alone Paulson should step down for even asking that. another thing thats fishy(without me diving into tin foil hattery) is the whole Eliot Spitzer scenerio(U remember the new york gov. that got caught trying to hook up with an 'escort'?) He spearheaded the movement to prosecute these banks for doing the predatory lending,& even called out the bush admin. for blocking state's efforts to get these mortgage loans rewritten. He announced he was planning on presenting legislation 2 weeks before he was caught.(he's still a scumbag, but thats my opinion) This was in March i believe? All i'm saying is that there was TIME. The 1st time i heard about the bailout was around the time of the 1st pres. debate. Notice how Bush & the house were pushing to 'act quickly'? Now here we are 2 weeks later & Bush & all the economist arer saying its going to take time. Now i'm really trying not to sound 'tin foiley' but something really isn't right. I was taught in high school that the Fed Reserve is a mostly privately owned centralized bank, which is one of the things the forefathers of this country was trying to get away from. Isn't it in the constitution that we're only soppossed to be dealing in gold or silver currency? Now i'm no college grad much less an a economist, but i Do know that something isn't right about all of this, that isn't getting addresesed like it should. We may not be getting taxed 'up front' but essentially whatever $ that comes from us or the Fed is going to be used to keep these banks going so they can just keep going business as usual, which means making more $ off of 'OUR' debt, with 'OUR' own $. To me that sounds ridiculous.
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Postby Freakzilla » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:17 am

I just talked to Countrywide Mortgage on the phone. They are going to re-evaluate the value of my house and adjust the principal on my mortgage.

Hopefully this will bring my monthly payments down considerably.
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Postby Omphalos » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:33 am

Freakzilla wrote:I just talked to Countrywide Mortgage on the phone. They are going to re-evaluate the value of my house and adjust the principal on my mortgage.

Hopefully this will bring my monthly payments down considerably.


They are just going to write off the value of your house that has been lost? I have heard about these programs.
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Postby Freakzilla » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:08 pm

Omphalos wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:I just talked to Countrywide Mortgage on the phone. They are going to re-evaluate the value of my house and adjust the principal on my mortgage.

Hopefully this will bring my monthly payments down considerably.


They are just going to write off the value of your house that has been lost? I have heard about these programs.


I guess so. It appears to be part of the NHRP: National Housing & Rehab Program and also part of the HOPE mortgage program.

I've only been in the house for about three years so I don't think I stand to lose much equity.

I kind of got suckered into the loan for more than I wanted to pay and I've been struggling the whole time. On the day of closing, I was told by the lawyer that my finance company had sold my mortgage to Countrywide and the intrest rate had gone up a point. Of course, this was after we had already sold the trailer we were living in so I had no choice. Payments ended up being about $400 more than I expected or wanted to pay.

So right now, lower payments sound really appealing to me.
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