John Clute is a heretic

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John Clute is a heretic

Postby Liege-Killer » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:50 pm

I'm enjoying his sci-fi encyclopedia quite a bit, but the guy has some harsh things to say every now and then. In his entry on Herbert, he praises Dune but then goes on to say:

But the several sequels that followed -- Dune Messiah, God Emperor of Dune, Dune This, Dune That, and Dune Umpteenth et cetera -- were not as rewarding as the original: a couple of them are talkfests, with neither salt nor savor.


Someone take his water!
"I'm being ironic. Don't interrupt a man in the midst of being ironic, it's not polite." -- Bradbury, The Martian Chronicles
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Re: John Clute is a heretic

Postby Freakzilla » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:06 pm

Liege-Killer wrote:I'm enjoying his sci-fi encyclopedia quite a bit, but the guy has some harsh things to say every now and then. In his entry on Herbert, he praises Dune but then goes on to say:

But the several sequels that followed -- Dune Messiah, God Emperor of Dune, Dune This, Dune That, and Dune Umpteenth et cetera -- were not as rewarding as the original: a couple of them are talkfests, with neither salt nor savor.


Someone take his water!


...and pour it on the sand. :shock:
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
will fall upon you because of your innocent mistakes.

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Re: John Clute is a heretic

Postby Omphalos » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:43 pm

Freakzilla wrote:
Liege-Killer wrote:I'm enjoying his sci-fi encyclopedia quite a bit, but the guy has some harsh things to say every now and then. In his entry on Herbert, he praises Dune but then goes on to say:

But the several sequels that followed -- Dune Messiah, God Emperor of Dune, Dune This, Dune That, and Dune Umpteenth et cetera -- were not as rewarding as the original: a couple of them are talkfests, with neither salt nor savor.


Someone take his water!


...and pour it on the sand. :shock:


He's not the only major critic who thinks that too. Ive seen many of them state that the next five books paled to the original. Some of them call the sequels "B" level fiction. Grrrrrr.
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Postby Freakzilla » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:46 am

I can see how they would be tedious if you're not into the story, but I don't see how that's possible.

:?
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Postby tanzeelat » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:02 am

Well, to be fair God Emperor of Dune is a talkfest. But I'd also maintain that the writing is sharper in the sequels than it is in Dune.
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Postby Omphalos » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:26 am

tanzeelat wrote:Well, to be fair God Emperor of Dune is a talkfest. But I'd also maintain that the writing is sharper in the sequels than it is in Dune.


As are Heretics and Chapterhouse, but "with neither salt nor savour?" Come on! There was PLENTY to think about and "savour" in those books.
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Postby Mandy » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:09 am

Heretics and Chapterhouse are my least favorite of the series, but they are still excellent books. The first time I read GEoD I didn't like it as much as I do now but it grows on you.
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Postby Omphalos » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:52 am

Mandy wrote:Heretics and Chapterhouse are my least favorite of the series, but they are still excellent books. The first time I read GEoD I didn't like it as much as I do now but it grows on you.


It was like that for me too. When I first read the series Dune and GEoD were my two favorites. But after so many years discussing that book on various boards, GEoD is now my favorite of the (only) six (that matter).
Something is about to happen, Hal. Something wonderful!

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Postby Freakzilla » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:18 pm

It took a few readings for me to really appreciate HoD and CH:D, probably because I first read them when they hit the stands and was in a hurry. I loved GEoD my first time through, it was epic.
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Postby Mandy » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:40 pm

Oh I loved all of them, but the degree of love was less for GEoD at first. Probably because of the shock of discovering so many years had past and all but two (counting Duncan Idaho) of the characters are long gone.
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Postby Tleilax Master B » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:36 am

I loved HoD and Chapterhouse the first time I read them. Took me a couple of times to appreciate GEoD, but I certainly do now.

I think Frank was still working out some of the details of things, especially the Tleilaxu, as he was writing. By Heretics, he has it all pretty much decided with details. That may be what I liked most about them. Just my opinion, obviously......
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Postby Serkanner » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:57 am

Having read all six of them so many times they have become one continuous book to me. I hardly see them as individual books any more.
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