THE (ALMOST) UNDELETED

I figure that someday soon it may be time to more thoroughly parse this thing.

excellent idea. I will start looking through it tomorrow. I took a day off.

I believe I found a couple of errors on it in a discussion at the Ghola Forum. At least I think it was about that timeline.

Yeah, we REALLY need to go through it.

Just have a look at the last Chapter House Dune content-related entry.

Omnius tries to catch the no-ship with the tachyon net? Oh, yeah, I remember that.

*barf* Oh yeah, Omnius, the Old Man Yeah, that thing is ripe for a good ripping for sure.......

The very first entry (when sandtrout brought to Arrakis) is completely unjustifiable as well.

I've thought about writing Torkos directly. Omph contacted him about the "Dune Ph.D." thing. He seemed fairly nice, right, Omph?

SandChigger wrote:The very first entry (when sandtrout brought to Arrakis) is completely unjustifiable as well.

I've thought about writing Torkos directly. Omph contacted him about the "Dune Ph.D." thing. He seemed fairly nice, right, Omph?

He was a very nice guy, who willingly offered that this is his hobby, that he claims all errors as his own, and that he is NOT Kevin's yes-man. He also confirmed that Kevin lied when he said that he was a "Dune PhD," who "checked for consistency." What he did was make the timeline based on the books, that Anderson then probably gave to his little club of proofers, who then used it to check against the text.

Dont you love how Anderson was crystal clear about that?

Omphalos wrote:

SandChigger wrote:The very first entry (when sandtrout brought to Arrakis) is completely unjustifiable as well.

I've thought about writing Torkos directly. Omph contacted him about the "Dune Ph.D." thing. He seemed fairly nice, right, Omph?

He was a very nice guy, who willingly offered that this is his hobby, that he claims all errors as his own, and that he is NOT Kevin's yes-man. He also confirmed that Kevin lied when he said that he was a "Dune PhD," who "checked for consistency." What he did was make the timeline based on the books, that Anderson then probably gave to his little club of proofers, who then used it to check against the text.

Dont you love how Anderson was crystal clear about that?

What a cock he is.

Well, I am up for discussing the timeline, and then maybe we can send an email to Torkos to see what his thoughts are?

Actually, if what Torkos says is true, than KJA's lackies didn't do their job worth a shit either. As anyone who has read Sandworms and Hunters knows, apparently the entire Scattering and all the known worlds take place in "a" galaxy. Dr. Torkos has this entry in the timeline:

???
Through gradual growth, Leto II’s empire becomes multigalactic. [God Emperor of Dune]

So if they were using it to match up to their stories, the dumbasses should have known that the Scattering was multigalactic, making it a hell of a lot harder for a machine army to "surround" it

GAWD, I fucking hate this also:

???

Ixians reinvent the no-field, unaware of the similar invention of the richesian Chobyn. Leto II’s no-chamber is built at Dar-es-Balat, on Arrakis. [God Emperor of Dune]

This was KJA's response also to the email questions that Chigger sent him. Its so fucking stupid that in the prequel world amazing inventions occur (no technology, nearly perfect face dancers, synthetic spice) and then the entire Duniverse regresses and loses all this progress, and then re-innovates it all--independent of the previous discoveries--and barely catches up to the level of the prequels by the end of Chapterhouse.

Tleilax Master B wrote:Actually, if what Torkos says is true, than KJA's lackies didn't do their job worth a shit either. As anyone who has read Sandworms and Hunters knows, apparently the entire Scattering and all the known worlds take place in "a" galaxy. Dr. Torkos has this entry in the timeline:

???
Through gradual growth, Leto II’s empire becomes multigalactic. [God Emperor of Dune]

So if they were using it to match up to their stories, the dumbasses should have known that the Scattering was multigalactic, making it a hell of a lot harder for a machine army to "surround" it

I will never stop thinking how stupid that was. How dumb do you have to be to ignore one of the few concrete facts that there are? Some team 'a monkeys hes got there, checking his words.

Tleilax Master B wrote:GAWD, I fucking hate this also:

???

Ixians reinvent the no-field, unaware of the similar invention of the richesian Chobyn. Leto II’s no-chamber is built at Dar-es-Balat, on Arrakis. [God Emperor of Dune]

This was KJA's response also to the email questions that Chigger sent him. Its so fucking stupid that in the prequel world amazing inventions occur (no technology, nearly perfect face dancers, synthetic spice) and then the entire Duniverse regresses and loses all this progress, and then re-innovates it all--independent of the previous discoveries--and barely catches up to the level of the prequels by the end of Chapterhouse.

Id like to hear KJA's real explanation for all of this. For example, what prescient was powerful enough before Paul came along that would even push someone to develop no technology? What problem was it designed to deal with? Norma? Fucking please, but just assuming that Frank meant her to even exist, nobody knew about her. The BG? The few with prescience Im sure were not powerful enough. The Guild? Linear only, and used for safety, as the Guild stayed out of politics. So why would this thing have even been built in the first place before Paul or Leto.

And even if it had, what calamity would have caused such a die back in tech? I just dont get any of that. And fucking please. Synthetic spice that is invented and then goes away? Who the fuck would let that happen?

Omphalos wrote:Id like to hear KJA's real explanation for all of this.

Hoping for too much there, I'm afraid.

And besides, why should he have to EXPLAIN anything? To you or anyone. He's the writer, dammit! NO ONE KNOWS HOW HARD ART IS!

Except maybe Eru's copy of Sadworms. And a conference table in Atlanta?

(You'd think he'd have gotten a splinter or two, no? Ouch! )

Anyway, what other explanation do we need seek than their obvious need to have everything bigger, better, and earlier than in FH's books?

What a pile of shit. Maybe '??? of Dune' should be the title of the next turd released from Anderson.

SandChigger wrote:

Omphalos wrote:Id like to hear KJA's real explanation for all of this.

Hoping for too much there, I'm afraid.

And besides, why should he have to EXPLAIN anything? To you or anyone. He's the writer, dammit! NO ONE KNOWS HOW HARD ART IS!

Except maybe Eru's copy of Sadworms. And a conference table in Atlanta?

(You'd think he'd have gotten a splinter or two, no? Ouch! )

Anyway, what other explanation do we need seek than their obvious need to have everything bigger, better, and earlier than in FH's books?

Oh, come now Chigger. You and I both know they are the "two biggest Dune fans" out there! And I'm certain we will all learn something once that huge and comprehensive "concordance" Brian did is released

Over on dunenovels awhile back I pointed out the remarkable similarities between the DE version of how the BJ started and the Pinky & the Brain version (the "female Butler has baby killed and gets pissed" scenario). Byron said he would ask them if they used the DE at all for their shit, I mean "books". I asked him again yesterday if he had gotten a response and he replied:

" I did but haven't heard from them. They're working deadlines right now. Sorry for the delay."

Its a lot of work cranking out 5 books a year you know!

Tleilax Master B wrote:

SandChigger wrote:

Omphalos wrote:Id like to hear KJA's real explanation for all of this.

Hoping for too much there, I'm afraid.

And besides, why should he have to EXPLAIN anything? To you or anyone. He's the writer, dammit! NO ONE KNOWS HOW HARD ART IS!

Except maybe Eru's copy of Sadworms. And a conference table in Atlanta?

(You'd think he'd have gotten a splinter or two, no? Ouch! )

Anyway, what other explanation do we need seek than their obvious need to have everything bigger, better, and earlier than in FH's books?

Oh, come now Chigger. You and I both know they are the "two biggest Dune fans" out there! And I'm certain we will all learn something once that huge and comprehensive "concordance" Brian did is released

Over on dunenovels awhile back I pointed out the remarkable similarities between the DE version of how the BJ started and the Pinky & the Brain version (the "female Butler has baby killed and gets pissed" scenario). Byron said he would ask them if they used the DE at all for their shit, I mean "books". I asked him again yesterday if he had gotten a response and he replied:

" I did but haven't heard from them. They're working deadlines right now. Sorry for the delay."

Its a lot of work cranking out 5 books a year you know!

There must be a lot of rewriting going on because the proofing team thinks its shit.

Tleilax Master B wrote:Oh, come now Chigger. You and I both know they are the "two biggest Dune fans" out there!

By ego maybe. I'll conceed that to them and gladly take third.

Freakzilla wrote:

Tleilax Master B wrote:Oh, come now Chigger. You and I both know they are the "two biggest Dune fans" out there!

By ego maybe. I'll conceed that to them and gladly take third.

Why would you ever do that?

1 A.G. = Appr. 13000 A.D.

Foldspace Shipping Company takes the name Spacing Guild and monopolizes space commerce, transport and interplanetary banking. Beginning of the Guild calendar.

Why no parenthetical citation?

10154 A.G.

According to a secret pact with Elrood IX, the Bene Tleilax takes over control of Ix. Tleilaxu Master Hidar Fen Ajidica launches the top secret Project Amal on Ix to develop the method for synthetizing the spice melange. Leto Atreides, Rhombur Vernius and Kailea Vernius escape to Caladan. Dominic Vernius and Shando become renegades. The Fremen begin terraforming Arrakis with Pardot Kynes’s guidance. Duncan Idaho becomes a servant of House Atreides. D’murr Pilru becomes a Navigator. Death of Paulus Atreides. Leto Atreides becomes Duke of House Atreides. Birth of Jessica (daughter of Gaius Helen Mohiam and Vladimir Harkonnen) as a subject of the Kwisatz Haderach project. Birth of Liet-Kynes, son of Pardot Kynes. [House Atreides]

Bullshit.

appr. 14000 A.G.

Arrakis is once more a desert. Scattered in the sandworms yet again ruling the planet is Leto II’s conscience condemned to muteness, ensuring the continuity of the Golden Path. [God Emperor of Dune]

How is that "ensuring" the Golden Path??

15225 A.G.

Having waited for millennia, the Bene Tleilax sets out to conquer humanity and convert it to the Great Belief of the Tleilaxu. [Heretics of Dune]

Hmmmm. I'm not sure their plan was to "convert" humanity......

(Just a few thoughts I've had as I read the timeline....)

Tleilax Master B wrote:appr. 14000 A.G.

Arrakis is once more a desert. Scattered in the sandworms yet again ruling the planet is Leto II’s conscience condemned to muteness, ensuring the continuity of the Golden Path. [God Emperor of Dune]

How is that "ensuring" the Golden Path??

Do you think he could mean that the pearl of awareness is somehow some kind of sentinel, watching to make sure that we dont run afoul of the path? What the heck is that about?

Omphalos wrote:

Tleilax Master B wrote:appr. 14000 A.G.

Arrakis is once more a desert. Scattered in the sandworms yet again ruling the planet is Leto II’s conscience condemned to muteness, ensuring the continuity of the Golden Path. [God Emperor of Dune]

How is that "ensuring" the Golden Path??

Do you think he could mean that the pearl of awareness is somehow some kind of sentinel, watching to make sure that we dont run afoul of the path? What the heck is that about?

No clue. Obviously, Leto's trout going back into the sands was part of the Scattering, since they and Tleilaxu provide all the spice needed to scatter after the Famine Times. But I think the Golden Path is pretty much set in place by then. I have no idea what he means by that--I hope KJA didn't influence him because that dickhole doesn't have the slightest clue what the GP was all about.

Tleilax Master B wrote:No clue. Obviously, Leto's trout going back into the sands was part of the Scattering, since they and Tleilaxu provide all the spice needed to scatter after the Famine Times. But I think the Golden Path is pretty much set in place by then. I have no idea what he means by that--I hope KJA didn't influence him because that dickhole doesn't have the slightest clue what the GP was all about.

Exactly. That is what he was waiting to die for. Duh!

I've been going around (amicably, of course) with Oyabun Nicodemus on this point over on MySpace. He sees the pearls of awareness as something Leto planned, as part of the GP; I think it was just a result of the hybridization with the sandtrout and the spreading out of his human brain through the pre-worm body.

He also sees the GP as something not yet complete (meaning, established and fixed) by the time of Heretics and Chapter House.

I agree that the pearl of awareness was a side effect of hybridization. I stopped reading Nicodemus' posts a while ago. He just goes on far too long. I cant stand signing on there and seeing another 12 column inches from him to read.

Someone should invite that entire crew to Jacurutu when it gets set up (very soon now, I hear!)

Yeah...there are two or three threads on that group that I haven't read just because the posts are sooooooo long.

(Not aimed directly at Nico, but I really hate it when people don't edit out the irrelevant parts when quoting in replies.)

Tleilax Master B wrote: This was KJA's response also to the email questions that Chigger sent him. Its so fucking stupid that in the prequel world amazing inventions occur (no technology, nearly perfect face dancers, synthetic spice) and then the entire Duniverse regresses and loses all this progress, and then re-innovates it all--independent of the previous discoveries--and barely catches up to the level of the prequels by the end of Chapterhouse.

Don't forget Hectate's kinetic spheres!

Skibum wrote:Don't forget Hectate's kinetic spheres!

A new application of an old trick with benwa balls?

Well, OK, it's more commonly done with pingpong balls. So Sue me.



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Yeah...stimulate your palm. (Wink Wink) "Relieve stress." (Wink Wink)

"Let the good times roll!"

SandChigger wrote:

Skibum wrote:Don't forget Hectate's kinetic spheres!

A new application of an old trick with benwa balls?

Well, OK, it's more commonly done with pingpong balls. So Sue me.

You just don't get the elevation with metal that you get with plastic.

SandChigger wrote:He sees the pearls of awareness as something Leto planned, as part of the GP;

I'm mildly intoxicated(an understatement, I assure you), but I'm sure Leto knew that he would end up as the "pearls of awareness," he talked about it with Hwi, I think.

There's no way I can find that passage in my current state of mind, but I refer you to every conversation Leto had with Hwi, and I think you'll find what I'm talking about.

Regardless, Leto told Siona that she WAS the Golden Path, so it was definitely established when Leto died. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to read GEOD more closely, I think.

Omphalos wrote:

SandChigger wrote:

Skibum wrote:Don't forget Hectate's kinetic spheres!

A new application of an old trick with benwa balls?

Well, OK, it's more commonly done with pingpong balls. So Sue me.

You just don't get the elevation with metal that you get with plastic.

I got a set of those a few years ago for Xmas and on the box there was a warning which said "Do not insert into mouth or any other orifice."

Hahahaha, comedy gold

Eru wrote:

Omphalos wrote:

SandChigger wrote:

Skibum wrote:Don't forget Hectate's kinetic spheres!

A new application of an old trick with benwa balls?

Well, OK, it's more commonly done with pingpong balls. So Sue me.

You just don't get the elevation with metal that you get with plastic.

I got a set of those a few years ago for Xmas and on the box there was a warning which said "Do not insert into mouth or any other orifice."

Bah, disregard that warning and insert away

Eru wrote:

Omphalos wrote:

SandChigger wrote:

Skibum wrote:Don't forget Hectate's kinetic spheres!

A new application of an old trick with benwa balls?

Well, OK, it's more commonly done with pingpong balls. So Sue me.

You just don't get the elevation with metal that you get with plastic.

I got a set of those a few years ago for Xmas and on the box there was a warning which said "Do not insert into mouth or any other orifice."

It should have ended with, "or attempt to eject at high speeds."

Hee hee, a drunk Phaedrus.

Phaedrus wrote:

SandChigger wrote:He sees the pearls of awareness as something Leto planned, as part of the GP;

I'm mildly intoxicated(an understatement, I assure you), but I'm sure Leto knew that he would end up as the "pearls of awareness," he talked about it with Hwi, I think.

Sorry if that wasn't clear. The issue wasn't whether Leto knew how he'd end up (you're quite right, he did), but whether he planned it, that it was a result of something he did. That's what I don't see.

OK, so...how many fingers am I holding up?

Uhm I hate fooking math lets see ,its six legs with how many per leg and carry the two minus pi plus Carmen Electra's cup size gives us, lets see here......

10?

Rob

BZZZZT!

Don't got no fingers, just little prehensive papillary pads.

Guess who I heard from by mail today! Edric.

Seems he's been busy working on an Orthodox Herbertarian version of the timeline..."purging" the new book references.

Have just glanced through it so far, but it looks like he has included a lot more of the Dune appendix data than the Torkos original does.

More later....

SandChigger wrote:Guess who I heard from by mail today! Edric.

Seems he's been busy working on an Orthodox Herbertarian version of the timeline..."purging" the new book references.

Have just glanced through it so far, but it looks like he has included a lot more of the Dune appendix data than the Torkos original does.

More later....

Cool.

(Soooo, have you updated him on AridQueen and what was his response?)

I didn't figure he needed updated, I just asked what his position is, whether he's been locked out, too. I made it clear I have no interest in returning to Arrakeen. (I won't go back even if he and/or Baron kick(s) her out.)

But that crap was just a small part of the reply I sent; what he's doing with the timeline is more interesting, and I had some questions. I haven't heard back yet, so I'm thinking he doesn't have fulltime/from-home access yet.

(I thought he was supposed to be joining over on Jacurutu? The last time I looked, he hadn't registered yet...unless I missed him.)

AFAIK he still doesn't have a home internet connection.

That is seriously too bad.

I really would like to hear back from him on..."the sitch".