Jacurutu - New Dune Forum Suggestions

Start topics here about Dune that are not bloody likely to be screwed with by me.

Jacurutu - New Dune Forum Suggestions

Postby Freakzilla » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:39 pm

Let us know what you want in a Dune Forum.

(A working search feature is a given :wink: )

I'd like to hear about everything from colors to rules.
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Postby SandChigger » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:12 pm

Is this something that's going to happen then, for real?

First off, DON'T go with a "free" hosted service like Invision Free. One of the Regent's big trump cards has been the restrictive IF ToS. Those of a normal ISP are going to be less so. I for one am willing to chip in on a new domain and all that. (And I was serious about making space on my domain available, but thought of one wrinkle afterwards: since I used "dune" in my domain name, the HLP might come after me at some point in the future. If my site got closed down, we'd lose the board for a while.)

Second, use free Open-Source boardware, like phpBB, that both DN and Omph use. (There's a very lightweight boardware called punBB that I was looking at for my site before Omph started up here, btw.) OS ware gives you the code, allowing you to customize.

For me, the color scheme isn't that important. It's just window dressing, after all, no?

As for rules, on the forums on the punBB site they have something like "Use common sense and don't post anything you wouldn't say in front of your mother." And that's it. ;)
Last edited by SandChigger on Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Omphalos » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:14 pm

Ragabash is setting up a phpbb forum, and has registered the URL.

I personally like this forum (phpbb) better than others. Though this kind of forum is kind of cool too, and it looks a bit more customisable.

I think it should have a LOT less forums than Arrakeen. I really hated that subforum feature that was horribly overused.

I think we need more detailed forums for cinema and TV than DH had, though. There is a lot to talk about there.

Oh, and it MUST have a book review thread. Can I moderate that? :wink:

As for rules, I believe an incredibly wise yet young and handsome man once said:

As for rules around here, they are being developed as we go along. Just stick to the basics for now. No harassment, no undue swearing, nothing illegal at all, no trying to hack into the control panel, no big pics and absolutely no ads, and we should be fine. Above all make sense in what you post, and I wont get pissed.
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Postby SandChigger » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:42 pm

Damn...that first page is FULL, isn't it?

That's vBulletin...not free. (It was one of the 'wares I looked at back in the fall when I was playing with the idea of setting up a forum myself.)
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Postby Omphalos » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:45 pm

Ah! Makes sense. That forum has like, tens of thousands of regular members and well over a million posts, in like five years. It is HIGH traffic, for a genre-themed fourm.

I do like that software, though. I think that they own the ads themselves.
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Postby SandChigger » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:55 pm

I looked at their pricing scheme again after posting the above.

$160 gets you

vBulletin (Owned License)

The owned vBulletin Forum license allows you to run the software on your site indefinitely. Along with this license, you will receive one year of free updates. Beyond the first year, you will have to pay a nominal fee, currently $30, to obtain updates for an additional year.

This license includes free support via email and on the community forum. Phone Support is not included in the license price but may be purchased for an additional cost either at the time of initial purchase, or afterwards through the Members' Area.


https://www.vbulletin.com/order/

That's not too bad, I guess, when you think about it for a long-term set-up.

The true test of a boardware, though, is the admin panel/area. ;)
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Postby Mandy » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:43 pm

I love vBulletin's software. Another type of forum software that is great is SMF.. it's free open source software and it's easy to use. I post at several boards that use it. http://www.simplemachines.org/

As far as the rules go.. the fewer the better.
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Postby Freakzilla » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:52 pm

What's the advantage to buying a license for something like that as opposed to using phpbb? Support?
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Postby Mandy » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:55 pm

It looks like the only difference is the email support.. I know you don't get that with phpbb
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Postby Omphalos » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:08 pm

Nothing. But it is extremely easy to use. The only thing that you cannot really do, that Freak wants to do, AFAIK, is customize the appearance of the board short of a mod-pack like what they did at DN.
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Postby SandChigger » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:09 pm

SMF is another of the ones I looked at. I don't remember finding (or thinking) anything negative about it.

Probably I was leaning toward punBB because it's more lightweight and had a smaller initial amount of files to upload (about half of SMF, 1 vs 1.8 MB). ;)
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Postby Omphalos » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:14 pm

Looks like SMF was just down for a "long time." Do they host, or was it just their website that was down. That would suck if all the forums were down too.
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Postby Freakzilla » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:16 pm

Omphalos wrote:Nothing. But it is extremely easy to use. The only thing that you cannot really do, that Freak wants to do, AFAIK, is customize the appearance of the board short of a mod-pack like what they did at DN.


You can change the colors and the image at the top can't you?
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Postby Omphalos » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:18 pm

I dont think so. Ill look tonight though.
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Postby Freakzilla » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:22 pm

I don't really care much about grahics for now, if we could add-on later to give it a little more pop that would be nice but I would like the option.
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Postby Mandy » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:23 pm

Omphalos wrote:Looks like SMF was just down for a "long time." Do they host, or was it just their website that was down. That would suck if all the forums were down too.


They have a thread about it in their support forums http://www.simplemachines.org/community ... c=217388.0 I didn't notice any of the SMF sites that I use being down so maybe they were only down overnight.
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Postby Omphalos » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:28 pm

There are toggles in the control panel to change colors, but the ones I have here do not seem to work. As for the graphic, I imagine that code-boy Ragabash could hack that and give you what you want. Now that I think of it, I think Ill find a graphic for this site and see if he can do it. Im bettin he can. :wink:
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Postby SandChigger » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:49 pm

Been there, done this, remember. ;)

On our old English e-Learning site at the uni, we had seven of these things running on our server. The different user levels were color coordinated, so I changed the outer background color to match. Didn't take the time to change all of the color schemes, though, but it's possible.

It's quite easy to swap in a new image for the "phpBB creating communities with a tent" logo. It's been a while since I did it...hang on a minute....


OK, I'm back. The logo files (there are two) are at

/templates/subSilver/images/logo_phpBB.gif

and

/templates/subSilver/images/logo_phpBB_med.gif

Just create new gifs of the same size and upload them.

Back when I was more favorably disposed towards Dune Novels, I started playing around with the idea of developing a theme and giving it to them as a gift.

Didn't last long, though. ;)
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Postby SandChigger » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:03 pm

Hee hee. Here they are on your site:

Image

Image

Oh, yeah, on the BBS I run on my site for my students, I used the FI Apple theme from this site:

http://www.forumimages.com/

You just download the files for whichever theme you want to use, upload them into the same templates directory as above (subSilver is what we're seeing now) and set it as the default in the admin controls. The one I'm using seems to load a little faster than the default, FWIW.
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Postby Mr. Teg » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:34 pm

Lets go head-to-head with Dumbnovels.

1) Front page (like at dumbnovels, manifesto, podcasts :) , link to the forum and others, etc.)

2) Forum

3) Clubhouse for Mods, etc. (The Undeleted)
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Postby Phaedrus » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:58 am

I was talking to a friend about forums and flamefests and things, and he told me about a feature they had on a board he once frequented that I thought was really cool.

They called it the "flamepit" or something like that, and anytime a flamewar was started, the posts in question were moved to the "flamepit" and the flamewar is allowed to continue without moderation, and the original topic goes on with its business. I think that's a great idea.

Fuck rules! Anarchy in the U.S.A.!
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Postby Nekhrun » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:28 am

Phaedrus wrote:They called it the "flamepit" or something like that, and anytime a flamewar was started, the posts in question were moved to the "flamepit" and the flamewar is allowed to continue without moderation, and the original topic goes on with its business. I think that's a great idea.

I've got a friend who does that with a Midwest radio board. Nothing gets deleted, nothing gets locked, it just gets moved to the appropriate location. I just don't look at that thread at work. :wink:
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Postby Omphalos » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:33 am

Phaedrus wrote:I was talking to a friend about forums and flamefests and things, and he told me about a feature they had on a board he once frequented that I thought was really cool.

They called it the "flamepit" or something like that, and anytime a flamewar was started, the posts in question were moved to the "flamepit" and the flamewar is allowed to continue without moderation, and the original topic goes on with its business. I think that's a great idea.

Fuck rules! Anarchy in the U.S.A.!


I think that sounds great too. That way everyday users can see flame wars coming, and dont have to click on them. You just have to watch closely to make sure that nothing dribbles over.
Something is about to happen, Hal. Something wonderful!

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Postby GamePlayer » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:25 am

Most likely, everyone already knows these suggestions, but it can't hurt to have them all spelled out in this thread:

  • Make the forum user friendly. The harder it is to sign up, login and find what one needs, the fewer people will be willing to use it. For a new board or a small community, this is absolutely essential.
  • Make certain the forum size fits the community size. Don't have a single forum if you have fifty members and don't have fifty forums if you have less than a dozen members. No one likes to join a board where the owners refuse to grow with demand and no one likes a board where nothing is happening. Cramped or lifeless forums will turn away lots of potential members.
  • When it comes to custom forum colors, functionality must be priority number one. It doesn't matter if the colors suit the theme of the boards, they must be practical, functional and easy to use otherwise they are a detriment.
  • Allow arguments and board conflicts to run their course. It's life. It's better to let arguments play out and parties have their fights for three important reasons: 1) it treats members like adults and allows them to make decisions for themselves, whether good or bad. Most people learn from their mistakes and become better members because of their conflicts, 2) if the board is micromanaged it ends up stifling the membership and the community dies and 3) modertation staff becomes disillusioned and bitter if they are in a state of constant battle with the membership. Remember, though the venue is different, people act like people, even online. Most memberships will manage themselves and only need wrist slappings/ass kickings every once in a while to keep the boards in line. Make certain that moderation is used sparingly most of the time.
  • Conversely, don't be afraid to be a tyrant when it is needed. Many internet trolls prey upon the understanding and leniency of moderation staff, and their willingingess to engage in long, multi-page debates about bad behaviour. Hit misbehaving members hard and fast and don't be afraid to answer their cries for reason with "because I said so!" No one will praise you for being a nice guy if the forum fails and if the community thrives, most will forgive you for being an ass.
  • Test forums are always useful and they help newbies and veterans alike to utilize features. They can test the posting of pictures, using polls and all kinds of other features without making a disaster of the boards.
  • A feedback forum can help if taken lightly. Suggestions can be useful as long as you understand that most suggestions will be worthless.
  • Make sure you know your community and allow a broad mandate for smaller, less active fandoms. Dune is definitely a smaller and less active fandom, so the opportunity to discuss all kinds of subjects would serve the community well.
Last edited by GamePlayer on Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Robspierre » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:37 am

Phaedrus wrote:I was talking to a friend about forums and flamefests and things, and he told me about a feature they had on a board he once frequented that I thought was really cool.

They called it the "flamepit" or something like that, and anytime a flamewar was started, the posts in question were moved to the "flamepit" and the flamewar is allowed to continue without moderation, and the original topic goes on with its business. I think that's a great idea.

Fuck rules! Anarchy in the U.S.A.!



WOOT!!!!!!

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Postby Mandy » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:00 am

A flame forum is a great idea.. a couple of the boards I visit have "no holds barred" forums. It lets the members get their squabbles over with without distracting from the conversations... when the members are all pretty good friends the squabbles are few and far between and usually end with everyone still being friendly.
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Postby Freakzilla » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:42 am

Great suggestions everyone! Keep 'em coming!
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
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Postby Phaedrus » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:05 am

Organization is important. Both the DNBBS and Arrakeen were pretty poorly organized. Well, DN's organization wasn't terrible, but the forum names and descriptions were really rough. Whatever you come up with for organization needs to be as simple as possible to find a topic, and to know where things go.

I'd love to see a user-submitted tagging system for threads, although that might be difficult depending on the boardware you end up using.
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Postby Crysknife » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:42 am

I'll chip in some money too!!!

I like the suggestions. :D
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Postby chanilover » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:46 pm

OK, here's how my favourite site works -

- hardly any moderation
- swearing is allowed. I know it's not big or clever, but it's surprising how being allowed to swear profusely gives people a sense of freedom of thought and expression
- hidden forums. Everyone, including guests, can view the board but certain areas are restricted to members of usergroups. This will give you the "invitation-only" area you want and general areas. The board which has this function is InvisionFree
- the only things not allowed are full frontal nudity and pictures of graphic violence
- 'show-off site' - where people start flaming each other, the threads are moved to this area and the posters rip into each other
- Cunt Corner - instead of banning members, members who continually act like dipshits have their posting rights restricted to Cunt Corner where other people can hurl abuse at them until they either leave or turn over a new leaf
- summary executions. The thing that I thought was most pathetic about DN and Arrakeen was their inability to deal with trolls who disrupted the community but dd it in a subtle way within the rules. On this site I'm talking about, if people are trolling and routinely upsetting the community, instead of going through a tedious committee stage approach of whether they should be put on moderation, have a warning, monitored etc, I've seen a couple of instances where the moderator has come out of nowhere and banned the troll on the spot, usually with a message like along the lines of FUCK OFF. Much better that way, people know if they take the piss out of the site they could just get kicked off without warning, although it's rare for it to happen.

Other than that, people are free to post and discuss what they want.
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Postby Mandy » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:51 pm

I think the hidden forum feature is available on all the different types of board software.. I know for a fact that vBulletin, SMF and phpbb have it.

LOL.. Cunt corner.. at TK we call it Day Care.
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Postby Omphalos » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:59 pm

I think I have some stuff hidden to non-members here. Cant recall what without looking, though.

And "cunt corner" is hilarious! Good thing we have no cunts here. :shock:
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Postby Tleilax Master B » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:08 pm

1) NO heavy handed moderation. As TPOG says, let adults be adults and work it out.

2) Let's keep the subforums to a minimum and have them well organized in a user-friendly manner.

3) I like the hidden forums idea; restricted to certain members.

4) I would like to see things organize somehow by topics and not by the book. It used to drive me crazy when I wanted to discuss something like the Golden Path, so I have to dig around God Emperor of Dune threads, only to find its actually in the Children of Dune thread, etc. These topics often span multiple books, so let's not organize by books.

5) Sorry, I'm an OH and I want my Frank Dune (ie. the REAL dune) seperated from by prequels/sequels. I like the idea of areas that you can discuss only Frank's stuff without hearing about Norma or any of those other fucking retarded characters.

6) I like a feedback forum where people can add suggestions and they can get debated. Only the admins/moderators need to be open to suggestions rather than dismissing them like Hymaintenance does....

That's all for now! (Oh, and yes, I would contribute some $$$$ also)
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Postby chanilover » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:30 pm

:lol: Looks like Cunt Corner is an all-round winner!
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Postby Nekhrun » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:45 pm

I don't have much to add in terms of rules, or moderation. I do like to see preeks who are willing to actually discuss how the new books fit into their version of the Duniverse. As long as they're willing to stick it out and back up what they are saying.

As far as a new forum goes...
This jumping around has been interesting. Hopefully we'll have something stable soon. Whatever you guys decide count me in. I'm willing to offer some financial support as well, if it comes down to that. Maybe we could have a wall of elders or something.
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Postby Omphalos » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:09 pm

I think we should each write our name on a brick, wrap it with a $20 bill, and mail it to Freak so he can put them in his front yard.

The bricks, that is. $ for forum. Get it?

So, are you going to go with a software package that has a license?
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Postby Freakzilla » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:13 pm

Omphalos wrote:I think we should each write our name on a brick, wrap it with a $20 bill, and mail it to Freak so he can put them in his front yard.

The bricks, that is. $ for forum. Get it?

So, are you going to go with a software package that has a license?


Can we get a free one that can be upgraded later? Since we already have a host we can make up our own rules, right?
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
will fall upon you because of your innocent mistakes.

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Postby Omphalos » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:32 pm

Freakzilla wrote:
Omphalos wrote:I think we should each write our name on a brick, wrap it with a $20 bill, and mail it to Freak so he can put them in his front yard.

The bricks, that is. $ for forum. Get it?

So, are you going to go with a software package that has a license?


Can we get a free one that can be upgraded later? Since we already have a host we can make up our own rules, right?


Probably depends on the board. This is a 2.02 board, and the ver. 3 is out. I think its still kind of buggy though. Whatever you want, Im sure something can be done to port content over to a new version once something solid comes out. But.....Im sure its not the easiest thing in the world to do. My advice would be to pick the package you like now, because once you get it going and it grows, thoughts of porting to a new board later get more and more remote.

As to the site, I dont think that will be a problem at all. Ragabash is going to register the name, and once it goes through (typically a day or two) all he has to do is set up the software and assign you a username and login. You will be the admin, so all calls after that are yours.

Why dont you PM him? He helped me a LOT with this board. I chose the software, but he knows a lot more about it than I do. And others as well. Some of the shit he can do blows my mind, really.
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Postby Freakzilla » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:40 pm

I'm leaning towards buying a license, I just don't know what's out there. I'll PM him and ask him to point out some options for me.
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Postby Omphalos » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:43 pm

I just spoke to him and he mentioned one that he likes called Vanilla. Its apparently very pared down without a lot of the opitons that board like this has. But he likes it because you can very easily pop on new features like lego. With this board, adding funcitionality is a bitch. I dont even understand half of it.

Im not sure how that one is organized though.
Last edited by Omphalos on Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Freakzilla » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:45 pm

I sent him a PM and asked him to point out a few I could choose from.
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
will fall upon you because of your innocent mistakes.

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Postby GamePlayer » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:04 pm

OMG, I can't believe I forgot this piece of advice. It's the most important one

  • ALWAYS keep your forum software up to date. Experience has proven beyond doubt that the vast majority of any problems a message board will experience could have been prevented with the most recent updates. Hackers, and most importantly wannabe hackers, prey upon the lazy habits of forum operators and they scour the net for vulnerable forums to destroy. I've been on three message boards that were hacked, all three of which could have been prevented with frequent updates. I can't stress this point enough.
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Postby Tleilax Master B » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:14 pm

How are things progressing on this front?
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Postby Omphalos » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:18 pm

I do believe Freak, who appears to be incommunicado lately due to punitive action taken by his company's e-nazis, is deciding what forum to use.
Something is about to happen, Hal. Something wonderful!

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Postby Freakzilla » Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:21 pm

Just give me phpbb. :?
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
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Postby Ragabash » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:10 pm

Freakzilla wrote:Just give me phpbb. :?


Word. I'll set it up this weekend.
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I'm making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS.
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Postby SandChigger » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:55 pm

Not the worst choice, despite what some (ahem) may think. ;)
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Postby Mandy » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:47 am

I like phpbb, and there's a lot you can do with it.
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Postby Freakzilla » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:51 pm

Ragabash wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Just give me phpbb. :?


Word. I'll set it up this weekend.


So, how's that goin?
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
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Postby Omphalos » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:41 pm

Freakzilla wrote:
Ragabash wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Just give me phpbb. :?


Word. I'll set it up this weekend.


So, how's that goin?


I asked Ragabash to re-prioritize his action items list this week, and get the fucking lead out. He agreed.
Something is about to happen, Hal. Something wonderful!

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Postby GamePlayer » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:50 pm

Hehehe. Cue creepy music from the Starcraft video game along with talk about leaving originals in the photocopier :) :lol:
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Postby Omphalos » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:58 pm

Watch yer cornhole!
Something is about to happen, Hal. Something wonderful!

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Postby SandChigger » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:24 am

Tried that once...but kept falling off the lavatory.

Besides...it wasn't doing anything inneresting.

(Um...yes, it's another one of those days...RANDOM! :D )
"Chancho...sometimes when you are a man...you wear stretchy pants...in your room...alone."

"Politics is never simple, like the sand chigger of Arrakis, one is rarely truly free of its bite."

Arrakeen is an unawakened ghola.
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Postby Tleilax Master B » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:24 am

SandChigger wrote:Tried that once...but kept falling off the lavatory.

Besides...it wasn't doing anything inneresting.

(Um...yes, it's another one of those days...RANDOM! :D )


:lol:
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Postby Ragabash » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:48 pm

Omphalos wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Ragabash wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Just give me phpbb. :?


Word. I'll set it up this weekend.


So, how's that goin?


I asked Ragabash to re-prioritize his action items list this week, and get the fucking lead out. He agreed.


It's set up. Freak, did Omph send you the administrator information?
GLaDOS wrote:This was a triumph.
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Postby Freakzilla » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:50 am

Ragabash wrote:
Omphalos wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Ragabash wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Just give me phpbb. :?


Word. I'll set it up this weekend.


So, how's that goin?


I asked Ragabash to re-prioritize his action items list this week, and get the fucking lead out. He agreed.


It's set up. Freak, did Omph send you the administrator information?


Sorry for hassling y'all to get it up. I've come down with some kind of cold, the whole house is sick. My son (3) has pharyngeal conjunctive fever, the doctor says we'll all get it, yeah! I didn't even get out of bed for a day. I feel a little better, at least good enough to get verticle, I hope to at least get the forums set up so we can break it in this weekend.
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
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Postby Freakzilla » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:51 pm

Here's what I've got so far, it's still a work in progress but I'd like your opinions. There's no fancy skin or graphics yet, just forums.

http://www.jacurutu.com./

Create an account and Let me know what forums or catagories of forums I should add or change.
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
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Postby kangamouse » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:41 pm

my suggestion for ANY new dune forum is to make it exactly the same as every other dune forum, have the same conversation and go around over the same ground trying to reclaim past moments of glory, and then after eighteen months have somebody from the american quango who don't actually own dune but think that they do, hack its code & sabotage it, screw over the community of other dune lovers using it, then start again with yet another new dune website that they are in control of.
isn't that a worthy tradition?

meanwhile I think it should be pleasantly sand colored and have cute sound effects.

edit; my apology, I meant of course Harkonnens
Last edited by kangamouse on Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby kangamouse » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:46 pm

Ragabash Im pleased to meet you mate, possibly for the first time, its good to see another dune garou around these parts :D
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