Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Start topics here about Dune that are not bloody likely to be screwed with by me.

Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Omphalos » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:54 pm

Fucking stupid. Whoever wrote this declaration is a tool. All that stuff at the beginning is part of expert witness qualification, but it does sound a bit self serving, no? And I hire experts all the time. Looks to me as if this expert is going a bit overboard and has made some conclusions of law. That is NEVER an expert's job, unless its a legal expert, and even then its really not the way its supposed to be done.

Anderson seems to be serving as some sort of expert here.

Seems Anderson's clients lost this case. The ruling was that the publishing could not be enjoined, but the publisher had to pay a pretty penny because there was so much use of copyrighted material. The declaration contains the basics of the dispute. This case is all over the internet, if you are curious.

Ill keep my eye open for more stuff like this.
Something is about to happen, Hal. Something wonderful!

-James C. Harwood, Science Fiction Writer, Straight (March 5, 1956 - May 25, 2010)



The Omphalos Umbrella Page
User avatar
Omphalos
Alien Overlord
 
Posts: 5677
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:24 pm
Location: The Mighty Central Valley of California

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby GamePlayer » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:35 pm

Gone With The Wind? WTF?
"What are we to call him, this Player of Games?"

"The books of Kevin J Anderson and Brian Herbert lie in a realm of uncertainty between self-conscious absurdity and genuine failure"
User avatar
GamePlayer
 
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:38 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Freakzilla » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:58 am

GamePlayer wrote:Gone With The Wind? WTF?


Watched it last weekend.
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
will fall upon you because of your innocent mistakes.

~Leto II, God Emperor
User avatar
Freakzilla
Archivist
 
Posts: 3450
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:56 pm
Location: Duluth, Georgia, USA

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby The Phantom » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:42 am

wtf... so he takes the stand and spouts off the same self-affirming bullshit as usual

notice though, he doesn't mention the notes as the source material for the sequels while in a legal setting.... hmm
I am not my own.
User avatar
The Phantom
 
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:06 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Omphalos » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:37 pm

He was hired as an expert by the party that owend Gone With the Wind. They had filed for an injunction to stop the defendant from publishing a story based on original story. He qualified himself as an expert before the court by hlding himself out as someone who did the same thing, only the "right" way.
Something is about to happen, Hal. Something wonderful!

-James C. Harwood, Science Fiction Writer, Straight (March 5, 1956 - May 25, 2010)



The Omphalos Umbrella Page
User avatar
Omphalos
Alien Overlord
 
Posts: 5677
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:24 pm
Location: The Mighty Central Valley of California

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Freakzilla » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:41 am

Omphalos wrote:He was hired as an expert by the party that owend Gone With the Wind. They had filed for an injunction to stop the defendant from publishing a story based on original story. He qualified himself as an expert before the court by hlding himself out as someone who did the same thing, only the "right" way.


Yeah, you've got to get the family's permision before you rape a corpse. :roll:
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
will fall upon you because of your innocent mistakes.

~Leto II, God Emperor
User avatar
Freakzilla
Archivist
 
Posts: 3450
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:56 pm
Location: Duluth, Georgia, USA

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby GamePlayer » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:04 am

Omphalos wrote:He was hired as an expert by the party that owend Gone With the Wind. They had filed for an injunction to stop the defendant from publishing a story based on original story. He qualified himself as an expert before the court by hlding himself out as someone who did the same thing, only the "right" way.


What a world.
"What are we to call him, this Player of Games?"

"The books of Kevin J Anderson and Brian Herbert lie in a realm of uncertainty between self-conscious absurdity and genuine failure"
User avatar
GamePlayer
 
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:38 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Seraphan » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:11 am

:doh: Why did i have to read that?! :angry-cussingwhite: He's one of the rare cases that when you refer to him as douche bag hack or pretensious idiot, its not name calling, it's stating a pure fact.
Image
"But if self-replication can be considered a life-form, then intelligence should be, too.
The real problem is that "life" is such an unscientific word" - Masamune Shirow
User avatar
Seraphan
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:18 am
Location: Right Behind You!

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Hunchback Jack » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:51 am

I'm not even sure what I just read. KJA spends half the document saying how awesome he is, and then gives his opinion on the legality of someone else's work using little more than analogy?

Not worth the paper it's written on.

HBJ
User avatar
Hunchback Jack
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:04 pm

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Serkanner » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:05 pm

It is as badly written as his "novels". BTW he mentions that awards were won with the Dune novels? Which awards were that?
User avatar
Serkanner
 
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:20 am

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Omphalos » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:38 pm

I think we can make some assumptions about Anderson's true focus from this document, as well as the complicity of the HLP. What it does is establish a rule that Anderson has adhered to, which is that you cannot change the "intent of the underlying work" without the permission of the "legitimate copyright holders." Its evidence that the HLP was not just hoodwinked as we have sometimes theorized, because they are the "leigitmate copyright holders" and they collectively own the literary estate of FH (paragraph 5). It also suggests that there is a formal arrangement between Anderson and the HLP, and not just a handshake deal between him and Brian Herbert (paragraph 3). Those two things are not earthshattering, but they are things that we have wondered about in the past.

If you read this thing as a whole it also appears that Anderson believes that the only interest that is of any import is the interest of the "legitimate copyright holders;" that as long as they are happy, any damage whatsoever may be done to the intent of the original author (see the whole document generally, but also paragraph 6). IOW, his analysis is focused on the economic side of things, which in and of itself ignores the important traditional side. His main conclusion is essentially that property owners can do whatever they want. Legally he is correct, but to analyze the true import of that conclusion we need to compare it to other things that he has said publically about his intent with Dune. Consider what comes out of his mouth constantly in other forums: How he wishes FH could have been a part of all of this; how he and Brian strove to accomplish Frank's will because Frank was an important man and that is what the fans want; that writing in shared universes requires close attention to details set down by people other than you; that you owe fans and creators a duty. All of this is 180 degrees away from what he is saying here. Certainly he can claim that he's heged his bets by deferring to the current copyright holder, but I think we can all tell that he's talking out of both sides of his mouth. This is decent evidence that everything we have been saying about his motives is true. He specifically states that moral considerations be damned, the only thing that matters, and this coming from someone who has written in a bunch of worlds created by others, is economic concerns.

Plus its signed under PofP.

It's not what FH would have wanted, despite the fact that they publiclly deify him. Its what his shithead descendents want, and now that he has ingratiated himself into that tribe of lunatics, it's what he wants.
Something is about to happen, Hal. Something wonderful!

-James C. Harwood, Science Fiction Writer, Straight (March 5, 1956 - May 25, 2010)



The Omphalos Umbrella Page
User avatar
Omphalos
Alien Overlord
 
Posts: 5677
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:24 pm
Location: The Mighty Central Valley of California

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby A Thing of Eternity » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:54 pm

Now that you point that out it is indeed very interesting...
I deleted some of your posts because they were derailing the topic and not focusing on the issues asked, and instead going after the authors or their material. That's why. ~ BM
User avatar
A Thing of Eternity
 
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: Calgary Alberta

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby GamePlayer » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:04 pm

A brilliant cross-analysis. I couldn't agree more. Well written.
"What are we to call him, this Player of Games?"

"The books of Kevin J Anderson and Brian Herbert lie in a realm of uncertainty between self-conscious absurdity and genuine failure"
User avatar
GamePlayer
 
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:38 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Serkanner » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:53 pm

Thanks for the analyses. It all starts to makes more sense to me now.
User avatar
Serkanner
 
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:20 am

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Liege-Killer » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:21 pm

Omphalos wrote:(see the whole document generally, but also paragraph 6)


Here we are.....

KJA wrote:6. In my opinion, this misappropriation of the Mitchell characters and character relationships would seriously taint the original property for further legitimate development by the rightful copyright holders.


Taint the original property...... oh, the irony!

Let's translate this into what he really means in terms of Dune:

KJA's real true inner self wrote:In my opinion, careful adherence to and respect for Frank Herbert's Dune universe would seriously taint the original property for artistically illegitimate development and rapacious profit-seeking by the rightful copyright holders (and me, me, me, their hack writer for hire).
"I'm being ironic. Don't interrupt a man in the midst of being ironic, it's not polite." -- Bradbury, The Martian Chronicles
User avatar
Liege-Killer
 
Posts: 432
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:06 am

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Ampoliros » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:12 am

I love the fact that KJA is so well known for writing in other people's universes that he qualifies as expert testimony on the subject.

Also, Omph, what are the legal repercussions for his 'misstatements' (mostly about his own work) in that statement?

The only reason he's written more Star Wars books than anyone else is because the Young Jedi Knights series is 14 books.
"On the Eight day, God created Wizards because he knew he'd have to retconn some crazy shit."
User avatar
Ampoliros
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:17 pm

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Omphalos » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:13 am

The purpose of those statements was to qualify himself as an expert. Different jurisdictions apply different tests for the qualification of experts, though since he is essentially a "lay expert," meaning that he is not applying the scientific method or a specific technology or test, the standards are kind of loose. As long as the statements are factually truthful his credentials as an expert are not subject to attack. That means that the court could accept his opinion if it so chooses. If the were untruthful then the only repercussions could be that he is disqualified as and expert, and in extreme circumstances he could be penalized for perjury, though I have only rarely seen something that drastic happen. Usually the damage is to one's reputation before the court only.
Something is about to happen, Hal. Something wonderful!

-James C. Harwood, Science Fiction Writer, Straight (March 5, 1956 - May 25, 2010)



The Omphalos Umbrella Page
User avatar
Omphalos
Alien Overlord
 
Posts: 5677
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:24 pm
Location: The Mighty Central Valley of California

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Ampoliros » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:46 pm

thanks!

It's nice having people from such different areas of expertise here and at Jacurutu. Law has always been an interest of mine though I doubt I'd enjoy it much as a profession.
"On the Eight day, God created Wizards because he knew he'd have to retconn some crazy shit."
User avatar
Ampoliros
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:17 pm

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Mr. Teg » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:40 am

Nice catch thanks for posting.

Reminds me of discussion back on keen but can't remember the thread.
How they treat words and passages out of context because they take the copyright literally.
The dictionary definition over the author's intent in order to justify their reboot.
Narf!
Combine Herbert Ober Anderson Mercantile
User avatar
Mr. Teg
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:21 am

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby chanilover » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:03 pm

:lol=: So now Combover is an expert on copyright law. What a twat, wonder if the stenographer had to take his deposition whilst out hiking with him.
Image
chanilover
 
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:52 pm

Re: Kevin J. Anderson and Litigation

Postby Freakzilla » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:20 pm

Nah, he phoned it in. Just like his books.
They were destroyed because they lied pretentiously. Have no fear that my wrath
will fall upon you because of your innocent mistakes.

~Leto II, God Emperor
User avatar
Freakzilla
Archivist
 
Posts: 3450
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:56 pm
Location: Duluth, Georgia, USA


Return to Dune Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron